A couple of questions about Chinese Junipers

[Tntthunder]

I keep seeing Junipers like these and they look absolutely beautiful.

First how do they make the trunks on Junipers so thick? All the ones I tend to see at nurseries are small and thin.

Secondly what is all the dead wood called? How is it created? Is that old parts of the tree or have they grown the tree into a dead tree?

 

[rockm]

I keep seeing Junipers like these and they look absolutely beautiful.

First how do they make the trunks on Junipers so thick? All the ones I tend to see at nurseries are small and thin.

Secondly what is all the dead wood called? How is it created? Is that old parts of the tree or have they grown the tree into a dead tree?

the trunks are thick because they are old. Time is the only way to get those thick trunks--like decades growing IN THE GROUND. You can use driftwood to graft thinner trees onto (that's called a "tanuki"--which is a nickname for a Japanese raccoon which is a known trickster), but those usually don't look convincing.

Deadwood on an bonsai can be called a number of things, depending on its size and/or location on the trunk. "Shari" is a strip of deadwood on a trunk.The swirling deadwood on the trees you have pictured is mostly Shari. "Jin" is a dead branch "uro" is a hollow in the trunk.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

One could even go as far as saying: you can't grow them like this yourself.
Because in any situation where you are growing junipers in a normal growing setting, the wood just doesn't get as dense as it does in the wild. It can take multiple decades to add an inch of thickness in the wild, where it might be half a decade in your backyard. This translates to the quality of the wood directly.
Think about growth rings for a minute. I've seen people here post spruces and other mountain trees with 45 growth rings per centimeter. That's 45 years of growth condensed in something the thickness of your pinky finger.
Repeat that over 300 years and you'll have a seriously cool tree.
But that's quite hard to do in your own backyard. Maybe not difficult, but it takes for ever.

I think it's possible to grow junipers fairly large like the ones pictured in your lifetime. But they wouldn't be the same high quality, simply because the wood isn't that condensed.
Does that matter? Should it matter? To some it does. I'd be happy to have a juniper like it either way. Condensed wood or not.

 

[Tntthunder]

the trunks are thick because they are old. Time is the only way to get those thick trunks--like decades growing IN THE GROUND. You can use driftwood to graft thinner trees onto (that's called a "tanuki"--which is a nickname for a Japanese raccoon which is a known trickster), but those usually don't look convincing.

Deadwood on an bonsai can be called a number of things, depending on its size and/or location on the trunk. "Shari" is a strip of deadwood on a trunk.The swirling deadwood on the trees you have pictured is mostly Shari. "Jin" is a dead branch "uro" is a hollow in the trunk.

Interesting, thanks for the answer! So basically these would have grown in the ground for decades and then the Shari was made on the tree?

It's incredible how things like this can be done.

 

[Tntthunder]

One could even go as far as saying: you can't grow them like this yourself.
Because in any situation where you are growing junipers in a normal growing setting, the wood just doesn't get as dense as it does in the wild. It can take multiple decades to add an inch of thickness in the wild, where it might be half a decade in your backyard. This translates to the quality of the wood directly.
Think about growth rings for a minute. I've seen people here post spruces and other mountain trees with 45 growth rings per centimeter. That's 45 years of growth condensed in something the thickness of your pinky finger.
Repeat that over 300 years and you'll have a seriously cool tree.
But that's quite hard to do in your own backyard. Maybe not difficult, but it takes for ever.

I think it's possible to grow junipers fairly large like the ones pictured in your lifetime. But they wouldn't be the same high quality, simply because the wood isn't that condensed.
Does that matter? Should it matter? To some it does. I'd be happy to have a juniper like it either way. Condensed wood or not.

I had no idea about that. Thanks for the info, it truly is fascinating and beautiful. Starting bonsai has really made me appreciate plants a lot more that is for sure.

 

[Colorado]

Interesting, thanks for the answer! So basically these would have grown in the ground for decades and then the Shari was made on the tree?

It's incredible how things like this can be done.

The junipers pictured above were almost certainly collected from the wild. There’s a remote possibility that these were “grown” for bonsai from young plants, but I highly doubt it.

 

[rockm]

Interesting, thanks for the answer! So basically these would have grown in the ground for decades and then the Shari was made on the tree?

It's incredible how things like this can be done.

Yes. Although people think bonsai are grown up from smaller trees, the converse is more true--larger trees are reduced (by cutting trunks and limbs substantially) to smaller trees. The more impressive bonsai, the larger specimens of conifers in particular, are typically collected from the wild or grown out in fields. That produces a larger trunk that is used as the foundation of the bonsai made from them. Reduction can be quite dramatic with some larger trees reduced by 90-95 percent depending on what is possible and what will keep the tree alive to be transplanted into training containers...

 

[Tntthunder]

Yes. Although people think bonsai are grown up from smaller trees, the converse is more true--larger trees are reduced (by cutting trunks and limbs substantially) to smaller trees. The more impressive bonsai, the larger specimens of conifers in particular, are typically collected from the wild or grown out in fields. That produces a larger trunk that is used as the foundation of the bonsai made from them. Reduction can be quite dramatic with some larger trees reduced by 90-95 percent depending on what is possible and what will keep the tree alive to be transplanted into training containers...

Do you know if there is anywhere I can learn more about this process? Articles or YouTube videos etc.

 

[bonsaichile]

Interesting, thanks for the answer! So basically these would have grown in the ground for decades and then the Shari was made on the tree?

It's incredible how things like this can be done.

More than grown in the ground, I would bet they probably were yamadori, that is, wild trees collected from the mountains where they grew exposed to the elements for decades or centuries. The bonsak artist(s) then bring out the best of the tree from the original wild one

 

[rockm]

Do you know if there is anywhere I can learn more about this process? Articles or YouTube videos etc.

Collecting or reducing trees? There is an entire category here on bnut about collecting trees. Some of that work involves reducing trunks...

Collecting & importing

For discussion of collecting trips, collecting methods & tools, etc. as well as government regulations for collecting and importing.

www.bonsainut.com

Trunk reduction is different among species. Conifers can be reduced to points that don't have any green growth. It will kill them. Deciduous trees on the other hand can be cut down drastically to stumps and regrown completely from a bare stump. Do a search here on "trunk chop" and you will get about a billion hits and lots of stuff to read.

And BTW, I think the trees you have pictured above belong to Masahiko Kimura (also known in Japan as "The Magician" for his work with transforming trees). It is not a good assumption that those trees were collected. Kimura is a master at redesigning existing old bonsai into new forms, as well as grafts and dramatically altering deadwood--but that's another story entirely.

 

[Tntthunder]

Collecting or reducing trees? There is an entire category here on bnut about collecting trees. Some of that work involves reducing trunks...

Collecting & importing

For discussion of collecting trips, collecting methods & tools, etc. as well as government regulations for collecting and importing.

www.bonsainut.com

Trunk reduction is different among species. Conifers can be reduced to points that don't have any green growth. It will kill them. Deciduous trees on the other hand can be cut down drastically to stumps and regrown completely from a bare stump. Do a search here on "trunk chop" and you will get about a billion hits and lots of stuff to read.

Awesome, cheers for the info!

 

[Kudo]

Eric Shrader also has written an article to develop this ribbon style shari with junipers from scratch: https://phutu.com/designing-yamadori-style-junipers/

As said before, the time to achieve the characteristics of the pictures you posted would take more than a lifetime and could probably not have the same quality.