A couple of tridents

bonsai barry

Omono
Messages
1,374
Reaction score
37
Location
Cental Coast of California
USDA Zone
9
Need Help with Pots for a Couple of Tridents

These are a couple of trident mapes that I picked up last spring at the Santa Barbara bonsai show. I only wanted one but the price was so good that I had to get ' em both. The challenge with the first one will be to develop a decent nebari.

I did not meet the previous owner to ask, but I think they were probably removed from their pots for the sale, so I didn't want to mess with them this year. I have all winter to try to find some pots. I think the root over rock is ready for a bonsai pot, probably not the other one if I'm looking to improve its base. There is much about pot selection that I don't know, any suggestion would be helpful.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

treebeard55

Chumono
Messages
763
Reaction score
84
Location
north-central Indiana, USA
USDA Zone
5A
Barry, a few thoughts, free and worth every penny you pay ...

I would go with ovals for both, to complement the curving (vs angular) movement of both.
For the ROR, I suggest something shallow, to show off the root-rock part of the composition. It does look to me as if the roots have come loose from the rock surface at a few points, maybe when the tree was (presumably) depotted for sale. You probably want to address that first.
For the other one (meaning not the ROR) you might want something fairly deep, almost like a han-kengai bowl. That's a bit out-of-the-box, but I think it might look good.
 

bonsaiTOM

Mame
Messages
210
Reaction score
1
Location
Cedarville, NY, USA
USDA Zone
4
Barry, Sorry, no advice to give - but would like to know the size(s) of these two trees. They appear to have nice potential. Best of luck with them and please show them again once you find the pots.
 

bonsai barry

Omono
Messages
1,374
Reaction score
37
Location
Cental Coast of California
USDA Zone
9
Barry, Sorry, no advice to give - but would like to know the size(s) of these two trees. They appear to have nice potential. Best of luck with them and please show them again once you find the pots.
Both of these trees are about twenty inches tall (51 centimeters) in height with trunks slightly thicker than a garden hose.

Thanks for the compliment, I will certainly this site current regarding the progress of these trees.
 

Si Nguyen

Omono
Messages
1,046
Reaction score
183
Location
Lake Forest, CA
Very good potential on these tridents Barry! I would grow them out a few more years before potting them up though. Especially the root-over-rock one, and maybe it needs the roots to be re-arranged a bit this winter before putting into the ground. These things develop really fast if you could let the roots go freely for 2-3 years, but correct any root faults now, or else you would have to correct them later.
Good luck!
 

bonsai barry

Omono
Messages
1,374
Reaction score
37
Location
Cental Coast of California
USDA Zone
9
Very good potential on these tridents Barry! I would grow them out a few more years before potting them up though. Especially the root-over-rock one, and maybe it needs the roots to be re-arranged a bit this winter before putting into the ground. These things develop really fast if you could let the roots go freely for 2-3 years, but correct any root faults now, or else you would have to correct them later.
Good luck!
I'm not sure there are any root problems to correct. The root is bound strongly to the rock. There is about an 1/4 inch gap at one point but I"m assuming that as th root grows, added firth will solve that problem.
 

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
8,998
Reaction score
16,219
Location
Charlotte area, North Carolina
USDA Zone
7B
Hi Barry;

I'm going to agree with Si on the root over rock tree. I think it needs some root work. Personally, I would even consider replacing the rock - perhaps it is because I don't like to see elms on lava rock; it doesn't look natural to me :)

The primary things that I think need work are that the roots are long and tubular with no taper and they don't appear to be "grasping" the rock. It might just be the photo. Additionally, there is a smaller root the comes right out from beneath the tree and projects between two of the front roots. Perhaps with growth this root would blend in, but right now I think it looks awkward.

I actually like the first tree better, even if it does need nebari work. You might consider grafting seedlings at the base for roots - you will get decent results very quickly with tridents.
 

Si Nguyen

Omono
Messages
1,046
Reaction score
183
Location
Lake Forest, CA
I'm not sure there are any root problems to correct. The root is bound strongly to the rock. There is about an 1/4 inch gap at one point but I"m assuming that as th root grows, added firth will solve that problem.
Hi Barry, I agree with BNut. Looking at this root-over-rock tree again, I think maybe a new rock is in order. You might as well change it. The previous owner was stuck with it, mentally, or had simply lost interest in it (we all have such trees in our collections), but now you can take it to the next level. A trident on a red lava rock just doesn't look right. A tall black rock or a nice Ibigawa rock would look much more appropriate. A better rock would do wonder for this tree.
With regards to the root faults, there are none really, but just a few spots that seem easy to change or improved upon whenever you replace soil anyway. See the red lines on the picture for at least one spot that you could change. The first branch is off a bit too I think, if you keep this as the front of the tree. The first branch seems to come off on the wrong side of the trunk, but it is hard to tell from the picture. If it does come off on the wrong side, and if you intend to keep this front, then the branch would make a nice sacrifice branch for a few years. It should go eventually. You've got plenty of branches to work with anyway. This is very good material to work on. The roots had been exposed for a long time and now have pretty well matched with the trunk. That's worth a lot!
Good luck with it.
Si
 

Attachments

Last edited:

bonsai barry

Omono
Messages
1,374
Reaction score
37
Location
Cental Coast of California
USDA Zone
9
Hi Barry, I agree with BNut. Looking at this root-over-rock tree again, I think maybe a new rock is in order. You might as well change it. The previous owner was stuck with it, mentally, or had simply lost interest in it (we all have such trees in our collections), but now you can take it to the next level. A trident on a red lava rock just doesn't look right. A tall black rock or a nice Ibigawa rock would look much more appropriate. A better rock would do wonder for this tree.
With regards to the root faults, there are none really, but just a few spots that seem easy to change or improved upon whenever you replace soil anyway. See the red lines on the picture for at least one spot that you could change. The first branch is off a bit too I think, if you keep this as the front of the tree. The first branch seems to come off on the wrong side of the trunk, but it is hard to tell from the picture. If it does come off on the wrong side, and if you intend to keep this front, then the branch would make a nice sacrifice branch for a few years. It should go eventually. You've got plenty of branches to work with anyway. This is very good material to work on. The roots had been exposed for a long time and now have pretty well matched with the trunk. That's worth a lot!
Good luck with it.
Si
Great advice. I would love to place it on a more appropriate rock, but I thought I was stuck. I assumed that the root had taken the shape of the current rock and would resist attempts to replace its base rock. My basic question is: Are the roots flexible enough to make major adjustments?
 

Si Nguyen

Omono
Messages
1,046
Reaction score
183
Location
Lake Forest, CA
Great advice. I would love to place it on a more appropriate rock, but I thought I was stuck. I assumed that the root had taken the shape of the current rock and would resist attempts to replace its base rock. My basic question is: Are the roots flexible enough to make major adjustments?
I would bet that the roots haven't completely fused to the rock yet. The roots look small and flexible from here:D They could be wired just like branches. But you should be able to arrange them around the bumps of the rock then hold them tight by rafia around the entire rock, without having to use wires on the individual roots, so as to avoid scars. I think you would have to replace soil next Spring anyway, so you can check how stuck it is then. Please update this thread. I would love to see the root work.
 
Top Bottom