A couple projects for Smoke...

[JoeR]

JoeR, @Bananaman is now the artist formerly known as Smoke. He is also available for gigs, birthdays, bar mitzvahs and 80's cartoon cameos.

I’m a bit confused about this lol.

 

[Paulpash]

I’m a bit confused about this lol.

Oh, he's changed his login on BNut to Bananaman .....

 

[JoeR]

Whoops.. this guy took off after planting in my grow bed and I forgot about it. @Smoke what can be done here, if anything?

 

[my nellie]

Whoops.. this guy took off after planting in my grow bed... ...

How long ago if I may ask?
Anyway, the trunk with the embedded wire in reminds of the Japanese technique for pines.

 

[JoeR]

How long ago if I may ask?
Anyway, the trunk with the embedded wire in reminds of the Japanese technique for pines.

Yeah it works for pines but unfortunately tridents don’t have the rough bark, so I don’t know if this will over time become unnoticeable or not. And it was in the grow bed a few months, maybe from summer-present

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

The damage is done, and I doubt it will ever fade completely. It has a good shape, and I’d try to remove what wire You can get to, and seal up the wounds with some cut putty. Bad plan for pines too, BTW. Leaving wire is not a good idea.

 

[JoeR]

The damage is done, and I doubt it will ever fade completely. It has a good shape, and I’d try to remove what wire You can get to, and seal up the wounds with some cut putty. Bad plan for pines too, BTW. Leaving wire is not a good idea.

Not the answer I wanted but it’s the one I expected. I’ll see what I can do next week though. It’s a shame, like you said It has a good shape. Are you confident it’s better to remove the wire rather than try to get it to grow over it, at least towards the base? Perhaps try exposing the cambium before cutting to seal over it?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Removing the wire will definitely expose the cambium. Then just cover it with putty.

 

[JoeR]

Ready for a haircut?

 

[JoeR]

Before


After


In the future it will be tilted more, with the branch dropping lower. I had to manage the roots first.

 

[JoeR]

Whoops.. this guy took off after planting in my grow bed and I forgot about it. @Smoke what can be done here, if anything?

1 year 3 months later

 

[JoeR]

I have found this tree to be exhausting. It has a bright future but I've not been able to make any progress in its design the last few years. I managed to control visible signs of fungus, but as a result of the infection or the fungicides it has been growing very weakly. I've read Daconil may have this effect. In any case, I have not pruned it back this and most if not all of last year. While its 'growing', its sparse compared to a healthy trident.

Any suggestions to ramp up growth and health? I have been fertilizing with organic fertilizer and fish emulsion. Its in mostly full sun, and I did not repot this spring.

 

[Smoke]

I have found this tree to be exhausting. It has a bright future but I've not been able to make any progress in its design the last few years. I managed to control visible signs of fungus, but as a result of the infection or the fungicides it has been growing very weakly. I've read Daconil may have this effect. In any case, I have not pruned it back this and most if not all of last year. While its 'growing', its sparse compared to a healthy trident.

Any suggestions to ramp up growth and health? I have been fertilizing with organic fertilizer and fish emulsion. Its in mostly full sun, and I did not repot this spring.

It took me a few minutes but I found this post, I suppose this is the one you are talking about. Take the freakin tree out of the pot and put it in a box or suitable large container. If you suspect it's weak, then help it. If you were feeling like shit how long would you wait to call a doctor, till the cancer ate up your colon? You can help your self but the plant can't, so help it. Put it in a container with plenty of leaf mold or suitable soil amendments. Fertilize with appropriate fertilizer and do it all summer with copious amounts of water and see how it responds. I have no idea about your climate and don't know what full sun is there. I know what it is here and at 107 would be dead in about 4 hours. Move it around and see if you get response. Your fertilizer sounds good for a good growing plant, but you may need to switch to something like miracle grow for a week or two to see if that gives a response. You will know in ten days.

I was an organic fertilizer guy for years. Used akadama religiously also, why I used the organic. Was told I had to cause thats what the big boys in Japan use. Fertilizer is fertilizer. Organic and chemical are derived from the same sources. Lots of urea. Now if you have a tree like this


I could understand the need for slow acting fertilizer to keep the very fine growth in check. In fact this would receive a minimum of fertilizer from me. But if you have a plant with little training and it just seems to be floundering, then get after it. Slip pot it into a nice box with good loose soil and pour the coal to it and watch it respond. I would cut it way back when you transplant it and give it no more than a couple hours in the morning. Moving trees around is a drag and usually not done properly so find one good spot for the maples. You have a visor in your car that you can pull down when the sun is pissing you off, think how the plant feels, it shows you in the only way it knows how!

Or you can do nothing and bitch here....your choice.

Good luck Joe.

 

[JoeR]

It took me a few minutes but I found this post, I suppose this is the one you are talking about. Take the freakin tree out of the pot and put it in a box or suitable large container. If you suspect it's weak, then help it. If you were feeling like shit how long would you wait to call a doctor, till the cancer ate up your colon? You can help your self but the plant can't, so help it. Put it in a container with plenty of leaf mold or suitable soil amendments. Fertilize with appropriate fertilizer and do it all summer with copious amounts of water and see how it responds. I have no idea about your climate and don't know what full sun is there. I know what it is here and at 107 would be dead in about 4 hours. Move it around and see if you get response. Your fertilizer sounds good for a good growing plant, but you may need to switch to something like miracle grow for a week or two to see if that gives a response. You will know in ten days.

I was an organic fertilizer guy for years. Used akadama religiously also, why I used the organic. Was told I had to cause thats what the big boys in Japan use. Fertilizer is fertilizer. Organic and chemical are derived from the same sources. Lots of urea. Now if you have a tree like this
View attachment 306907

I could understand the need for slow acting fertilizer to keep the very fine growth in check. In fact this would receive a minimum of fertilizer from me. But if you have a plant with little training and it just seems to be floundering, then get after it. Slip pot it into a nice box with good loose soil and pour the coal to it and watch it respond. I would cut it way back when you transplant it and give it no more than a couple hours in the morning. Moving trees around is a drag and usually not done properly so find one good spot for the maples. You have a visor in your car that you can pull down when the sun is pissing you off, think how the plant feels, it shows you in the only way it knows how!

Or you can do nothing and bitch here....your choice.

Good luck Joe.

Point understood, thanks again smoke. Nice to see you back around bnut.

I previously thought the oil pan was a 'suitably large' grow out container at maybe 16" across and topped with sphagnum moss. But now that you say it, I can see that it would be insufficient for this tree. Especially in terms of depth. I'll build a grow box immediately.

I feed organic solid fertilizer at bud break more for the microbiome than the tree itself, hoping to support beneficial microbes. No idea if it works, but theoretically I imagine it helps. I was under the impression fish emulsion was fast acting, maybe not, but I will switch to miracle grow.

Full sun is direct light from when it crests the treeline at maybe 9am to when its behind the trees at 4pm. Hot and humid here, 90's this week. Typically I hang a 30% (ish?) shade cloth in June when its consistently >90.

Picture for reference, trident at left. One bench rotted finally so they are temporarily cramped on this one at the moment, i do not typically grow trees this close together. Others are dispersed on the ground, gravel

 

[Smoke]

Picture for reference, trident at left. One bench rotted finally so they are temporarily cramped on this one at the moment, i do not typically grow trees this close together. Others are dispersed on the ground, gravel

As I see them on the bench, it does not look like the trident is suffering too much in the growth department. What I can tell you is that unless there is a reason for allowing that tree to grow so far out, your not pruning enough. people allow growth like that to fatten a specific branch, or grow a longer top with a top branch allowed to bolt but keeping the other growth shorter. The reason it seems weak to you is that the tree does not need to grow more. The leaves are so large and the internodes so long that the tree is making all the nutrition it needs. Now if you cut off 3/4 of all that lanky growth I think you would see a difference in the way the tree grows. I think you would see buds all over and new growth would form on top of the cut back. It's all proportional.

 

[Smoke]

I notice that your bench is one block high. Thats 16 inches. Thats too short for fungus control. Need at least 24 inches or your battle will never go away even with chemicals. Fungus is just too aggressive. eve if you tell me that the back bench is taller, the fungus is in the front plants too, they are just not showing the same damage because the leaves are maybe not as susceptible, and they way need spreading out. You would notice a big difference just giving each plant a foot in between.

See the space afforded to these plants. Very hard for pathogens to escape to other plants. Plants need Social Distancing too!!!!!

 

[JoeR]

As I see them on the bench, it does not look like the trident is suffering too much in the growth department. What I can tell you is that unless there is a reason for allowing that tree to grow so far out, your not pruning enough. people allow growth like that to fatten a specific branch, or grow a longer top with a top branch allowed to bolt but keeping the other growth shorter. The reason it seems weak to you is that the tree does not need to grow more. The leaves are so large and the internodes so long that the tree is making all the nutrition it needs. Now if you cut off 3/4 of all that lanky growth I think you would see a difference in the way the tree grows. I think you would see buds all over and new growth would form on top of the cut back. It's all proportional.

That makes alot of sense.

The original reason I did not cut back, besides vigor, is the last 2 years after cutting maples back during our rainy season, it seemed to expose the tree to fungus especially for the kotohime. And they would not bounce back. I would cut back, and then within 2 or 3 weeks it would have black ends and new growth. I also was not as consistent in my fungicide application, however.

I will post the results of the cutback and transplant Sunday night, im working out of town the next couple days.

 

[JoeR]

I notice that your bench is one block high. Thats 16 inches. Thats too short for fungus control. Need at least 24 inches or your battle will never go away even with chemicals. Fungus is just too aggressive. eve if you tell me that the back bench is taller, the fungus is in the front plants too, they are just not showing the same damage because the leaves are maybe not as susceptible, and they way need spreading out. You would notice a big difference just giving each plant a foot in between.

See the space afforded to these plants. Very hard for pathogens to escape to other plants. Plants need Social Distancing too!!!!!

View attachment 306925

Absolutely agree. I am building new benches now for this reason. Although, I had not heard of the 2 foot rule until you wrote it yesterday, so great to know

 

[Smoke]

Absolutely agree. I am building new benches now for this reason. Although, I had not heard of the 2 foot rule until you wrote it yesterday, so great to know

There is no rule. It is just my arbitrary number for a couple reasons. It allows air to circulate easily under the benches if you have ground cover growing there, and the plants show better on taller benches. The fungus control is just a happy accident of some common sense ideals.

 

[JoeR]

Had to take a break from the heat, crazy hot and humid today. Going to fertilize with the pictured miracle grow tonight and spray daconil. I am now wondering if this is actually not anthracnose, but verticillium wilt... diseased leaves pictured. I had a cork bark JM that definitely had it, black twig dieback. They have red, yellow, and brown. I removed all visibly infected leaves. As recommended, I pruned about 3/4 of the foliage, cutting back to first set of leaves everywhere except the top growing branch to help close that wound.