A discussion on hours of sunlight per day

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I recently moved into a new house and have been thinking alot about sun lately. My area is east and south exposed with a row of Cedars blocking the west exposure. My guess is I will get around 8 hours of sun per day on the new garden but I may cut back the Cedars to try and get more.

I grow a lot of White Cedar, Larch, and Pine which all like sun. How many hours of sun per day do you think is optimum for your trees?
 
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As much as possible.
I had a lot of success growing with about 9 hrs of sun per day. I feel like if I had full sun from sun up to down I would have to water 4 times per day haha.

I think I do need to cut down a few trees to gain about a 10 hr day of sun.
 

M. Frary

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I had a lot of success growing with about 9 hrs of sun per day. I feel like if I had full sun from sun up to down I would have to water 4 times per day haha.

I think I do need to cut down a few trees to gain about a 10 hr day of sun.
Just rekember.
Every tree has in it the potential to be a stump.
 

Sifu

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All my trees grow in semi shade with max 3 hours of direct sun per day and they all do just fine. I mostly have deciduous btw. No pines (only one pinus sylvestris), no cedars, no larches, so that might be the case. If pines and larches really require 8 hours + direct sun per day i don't think i will ever collect one :)
 

Gene Deci

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This is an interesting question. My benches get full sun from dawn until about 3 pm which in mid summer is 9 + hours. All my trees including the larch, cedars and pine are healthy enough but I don't actually know if they might do better. I have taken to putting my pines where they get the maximum sun - maybe 3/4 of an hour more than the shadier end - but I don't know if it makes any difference. In particular, I wonder if it might help with foliage size and internode length.
 

WNC Bonsai

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I have one area that gets what might be considered full sun, the rest are in part sun, usually in the morning hours. It is interesting when you look up growing conditions and how many say full to part sun, and almost all say protect from mid-day sun.
 
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I think the more sun the better for alot of things but not everything. It is nice to have varying amounts of sun in a growing area. I like collected trees to have about 4hrs only and no afternoon sun for most of the first year. Pines could probably use 12 hrs per day but I don't think I can make that happen.... or can I.

@Gene Deci I think you are right about internode length etc. Most likely it would be easier to accomplish tight small growth with more sun. Possibly less fungal and insect issues as well.

I think sun is a really important thing to think about. Another issue to consider is when does the dawn sunlight hit your trees. If you are on top of a hill the dawn light will come in sooner, if you are at the bottom of a hill you may loose that first 30 minutes to 1 hour. My new place gets the dawn light about 30 minutes - 1 hr later so I am trying to make up for that with some more afternoon sun.
 

Anthony

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Tropics here.
J.B.pines get from 6 a.m until 4.00 p.m
Celtis l. prefers dappled light all day.
Crepe myrtle can handle same as J.B.pines.
Same for Fukien tea, and Southern Chinese elms.

Boxwood from Miami, is more morning and late evening sun.
Good Day
Anthony
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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My back yard in Illinois is quite shady.
On the farm I have spots that are sun from sunrise to sunset.

My JBP did not grow dense or look healthy when they got sun less than 5 hours of sun per day. When moved to the farm to the full sun, nice dense fox tails of new growth. Definitely need a lot of sun for pines. Mugo, Scotts pines and Pinus nigra seem to deal with 5 - 6 hours of sun better than JBP. Though all 3 seem to have better growth when they get more than 6 hours of sun, best with 8 or more.

I can't tell for sure but I think my Pitch pines prefer more sun to less sun. In 6 hours of sun they seem, okay, but a bit on the thin and wispy side, I haven't stashed any at the farm yet to see how dense or tight they can grow.

Ponderosa seem to need at least 6 hours of direct sun, seem somewhat happier with sunrise to sunset full sun.

Jack pines and American red pine (P resinosa) both real clearly need at least 8 or more hours of unobstructed full sun. If you look at where they grow in the wild, they are only found in areas that were open fields, open burn areas, or otherwise full sun location. Both need more sun than Ponderosa.

My Thuja, (White Cedars) seem to grow a little loose but pretty decent with 4 or 5 hours of sun, on the farm same trees grow with somewhat tighter foliage. But growth shade or sun is not too bad. Sun is better.

Eastern hemlock - seems fine in full sun, seems just as fine with 5 hours sun, grows a little loose but otherwise not bad in pretty much full shade.

Junipers, in Illinois in my shady yard, my shimpaku had loose wispy foliage. No density. Moved them to the farm. In one season foliage tightened up, now the second year they look like the juniper pictures in books. Dense pads of foliage. Junipers definitely need 6 or more hours of direct sun to keep tight foliage. Junipers look great with sunrise to sunset direct sun.

Most of my deciduous trees seem fine with 4 or 6 hours of sun.
These are my observations.
 

WNC Bonsai

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I agree with Leo’s observations. I try to resist the urge to buy pines and junipers since my yard sounds like his as far as sun goes. I have a couple spots that get full sun and that’s where my spruce and pine sit. It is best to measure the hours of sunlight in various parts of your yard but of course that will change during the growing season. Gardeners Edge sells a sunlight calculator that you poke in your yard and let it sit 12 hours. It will them light an LED next to one of 4 light conditions—full sun, part sun, part shade, shade. Move it around the yard and you can draw a map showing the best places for your bonsai. Do it every month and you can plan ahead. It beats sitting around all day mapping which parts of your yard are in sun or not and when, unless you are retired like me and I don’t have the patience ot do it that way!
 
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My back yard in Illinois is quite shady.
On the farm I have spots that are sun from sunrise to sunset.

My JBP did not grow dense or look healthy when they got sun less than 5 hours of sun per day. When moved to the farm to the full sun, nice dense fox tails of new growth. Definitely need a lot of sun for pines. Mugo, Scotts pines and Pinus nigra seem to deal with 5 - 6 hours of sun better than JBP. Though all 3 seem to have better growth when they get more than 6 hours of sun, best with 8 or more.

I can't tell for sure but I think my Pitch pines prefer more sun to less sun. In 6 hours of sun they seem, okay, but a bit on the thin and wispy side, I haven't stashed any at the farm yet to see how dense or tight they can grow.

Ponderosa seem to need at least 6 hours of direct sun, seem somewhat happier with sunrise to sunset full sun.

Jack pines and American red pine (P resinosa) both real clearly need at least 8 or more hours of unobstructed full sun. If you look at where they grow in the wild, they are only found in areas that were open fields, open burn areas, or otherwise full sun location. Both need more sun than Ponderosa.

My Thuja, (White Cedars) seem to grow a little loose but pretty decent with 4 or 5 hours of sun, on the farm same trees grow with somewhat tighter foliage. But growth shade or sun is not too bad. Sun is better.

Eastern hemlock - seems fine in full sun, seems just as fine with 5 hours sun, grows a little loose but otherwise not bad in pretty much full shade.

Junipers, in Illinois in my shady yard, my shimpaku had loose wispy foliage. No density. Moved them to the farm. In one season foliage tightened up, now the second year they look like the juniper pictures in books. Dense pads of foliage. Junipers definitely need 6 or more hours of direct sun to keep tight foliage. Junipers look great with sunrise to sunset direct sun.

Most of my deciduous trees seem fine with 4 or 6 hours of sun.
These are my observations.
Great breakdown Leo with your observations. Thanks for taking the time to put down your info. I think you are right on.
 

Clicio

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Thanks all for the good info!
Here in the tropics "full sun" has a different meaning, and many species (maples for instance) can suffer a lot of damage in the summer. Even now, springtime is a little hotter than last year, and midday to early afternoon sun can dry things fast.
I agree also that some of the trees need more than twice waterings a day in this scenario, and most benefit by having a shadecloth above them during the hottest hours of the day.
 

sorce

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You are correct it is important to think about.

Last year I got Sun till about November.
This year in late September the Sun was gone by Noon.
Neighbors tree is getting too tall.
After next springs growth, I won't get any sun at all!

#moving!

S
 

M. Frary

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Neighbors tree is getting too tall.
I got some stuff dude.
A couple quick squirts into the roots and the neighbors will be hiring someone to take down the standing firewood.
I will do night work when it's called for.
 

sorce

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I got some stuff dude.
A couple quick squirts into the roots and the neighbors will be hiring someone to take down the standing firewood.
I will do night work when it's called for.
Lol!
Hell yeah!

Nah...Im outta here anyway...well...

She wants to get out of state.

S
 

Anthony

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Nah South - Not Puerto Rico,o_O
Maybe Florida - chuckle.;)
Sorce needs hurrricane traineed trees.:eek:
Good Day
Anthony
 
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