A few Questions about developing nursery stock

[Tntthunder]

Recently got a another tree from a nursery, a Chinese Juniper 'Blaauws'. I slip pot into a bigger nursery pot to allow it to grow more and also wired the trunk and a few other thicker branches just for movement. Besides that pulled out small crotch growth and tiny weak interior foliage to open it up a bit.
Besides that I left all the long whips and branches untouched. I removed probably about 5-10% foliage at the absolute max.

My goal is to learn more about the development stage of bonsai so I want to grow and thicken this juniper. But when it comes to actually pruning juniper to "redistribute energy" for taper and keep it healthy I am not really sure what to do. So I am trying to take this cold time of year to learn as much as possible.

So the long whips are top and bottom of the tree, so if I am not mistaken I should prune the higher growth more than the lower growth right? This thickens the lower parts more?

Secondly when should I prune for this? I am reading it's more of a summer thing for this type of pruning? Is this correct?

And finally how exactly should I cut the branches/whips? This is something I am struggling to find clear info on. As in where exactly to cut and how to cut It. Should I cut the whips all the way back to the hardened branch? Should I leave any of the younger part of the shoot etc.

Any info or direction to rescourses would be awesome. Also I ask a lot of questions on the forum, I appreciate everyone who is always helping me learn and all the different opinions. Thanks again!

 

[Paradox]

With junipers, I cut back to an existing shoot that I want to develop from. This helps to build taper in the growth. It should also promote back budding. I generally like to do this in spring after growth starts.

Pictures of the tree and an idea of where you think you want to go with it would help us give you suggestions.

 

[Shibui]

There are always exceptions to any advice so whatever anyone offers there can be other options. Don't get too hung up on the one correct or best way to do anything in bonsai.
Without pics I can only try to guess what your tree looks like and what you think you want to achieve but here are a few options.

I have had good results allowing sacrifice branches to develop and grow on junipers. Sometimes I've had sacrifice branches over a metre long on trees that would end up at around 20 cm tall. Every sacrifice branch adds bulk to the trunk below it so several sacrifices along the trunk contribute to trunk taper and all add to thickening the lower section. Sacrifice branches at the apex thicken the entire trunk and may be useful in some cases.
Sacrifice branches will need to be removed at some stage so consider location in relation to scars after. I convert most to jin of one sort or another after they have finished doing thickening.

Junipers tend to grow long straight sections if left to do their own thing. Thicker juniper trunks/branches are really hard and difficult to bend so putting bends in early if you think you'll need them.
Some bends can be achieved by pruning back to a side branch.

I prune junipers whenever I have: time, tools, tree. Don't worry too much about time of year.

Cut older, hard branches wherever you want. The branch will die back to the nearest viable side branch which is normal and no problem or you can cut close to a side branch right off. Cutting a branch below any green foliage will usually make the branch die back to the nearest live fork or to the trunk if there's no other live parts close.
Cut younger shoots wherever you like. They sprout again from the base of scales on the shoot so will shoot wherever you cut.

 

[Tntthunder]

There are always exceptions to any advice so whatever anyone offers there can be other options. Don't get too hung up on the one correct or best way to do anything in bonsai.
Without pics I can only try to guess what your tree looks like and what you think you want to achieve but here are a few options.

I have had good results allowing sacrifice branches to develop and grow on junipers. Sometimes I've had sacrifice branches over a metre long on trees that would end up at around 20 cm tall. Every sacrifice branch adds bulk to the trunk below it so several sacrifices along the trunk contribute to trunk taper and all add to thickening the lower section. Sacrifice branches at the apex thicken the entire trunk and may be useful in some cases.
Sacrifice branches will need to be removed at some stage so consider location in relation to scars after. I convert most to jin of one sort or another after they have finished doing thickening.

Junipers tend to grow long straight sections if left to do their own thing. Thicker juniper trunks/branches are really hard and difficult to bend so putting bends in early if you think you'll need them.
Some bends can be achieved by pruning back to a side branch.

I prune junipers whenever I have: time, tools, tree. Don't worry too much about time of year.

Cut older, hard branches wherever you want. The branch will die back to the nearest viable side branch which is normal and no problem or you can cut close to a side branch right off. Cutting a branch below any green foliage will usually make the branch die back to the nearest live fork or to the trunk if there's no other live parts close.
Cut younger shoots wherever you like. They sprout again from the base of scales on the shoot so will shoot wherever you cut.

Ok so I am understanding where the brown wood meets the green wood is this year's growth?

So if I cut a hard branch is will die back to the branch/fork below the cut? Does that mean I should make cuts right at where a branch meets a trunk?

As for the young parts new shoots come from the cut?

 

[Tntthunder]

I shouldn't cut through the foliage either I am guessing but between them

 

[Tntthunder]

Also when I put bends in the trunk/branches they were all very random and extreme bends with no real style or methodology in mind as I am not sure where I am going with this tree besides letting it grow and thicken for a few years and then style it more then. Maybe even cut back to a thinner branch and grow from there after the winter.
Mainly just trying to learn things.

Is this a good or bad thing when it comes to random bending in development or is it better to make specific bends with style in mind for 5 years down the line

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Also when I put bends in the trunk/branches they were all very random and extreme bends with no real style or methodology in mind as I am not sure where I am going with this tree besides letting it grow and thicken for a few years and then style it more then. Maybe even cut back to a thinner branch and grow from there after the winter.
Mainly just trying to learn things.

Is this a good or bad thing when it comes to random bending in development or is it better to make specific bends with style in mind for 5 years down the line

Random movement should give you something more “natural” to work with later, so don’t get too hung up on what is the front now, that may well change. You also don’t want concentric spirals or loops, because they will always look contrived. Make some extreme bends side to side, front to back, and then let the tree grow in the ground or oversized pot for a few years. Don’t let the wires get buried; leave them long enough to set the bend, remove the wires and let the tree grow into the new shape. After the tree puts out a lot of foliage, it will start to put on some wood. That’s what you want, but it takes time with junipers.

On trimming for directional growth, here is an example of a cut (red) and expected resulting growth (green). Have fun, looks like decent foliage.

 

[Shibui]

Also when I put bends in the trunk/branches they were all very random and extreme bends with no real style or methodology in mind as I am not sure where I am going with this tree besides letting it grow and thicken for a few years and then style it more then. Maybe even cut back to a thinner branch and grow from there after the winter.
Mainly just trying to learn things.

Is this a good or bad thing when it comes to random bending in development or is it better to make specific bends with style in mind for 5 years down the line

Random bends are great. No real need to plan right at the start because the trees change so much as they grow.
Need to be aware that developing juniper is longer term project. Most of mine take 5-10 years to develop decent trunks.
Here are a few recent threads with bent and twisted junipers.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/another-shimapku-first-real-styling.57387/
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/time-to-start-styling-shimpaku.57145/
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/restyle-shimpaku.57261/
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/more-twisted-shimpaku.47546/

 

[Tntthunder]

Random bends are great. No real need to plan right at the start because the trees change so much as they grow.
Need to be aware that developing juniper is longer term project. Most of mine take 5-10 years to develop decent trunks.
Here are a few recent threads with bent and twisted junipers.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/another-shimapku-first-real-styling.57387/
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/time-to-start-styling-shimpaku.57145/
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/restyle-shimpaku.57261/
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/more-twisted-shimpaku.47546/

Yea I am ok with the longer term aspect of developing the learning not only bonsai but horticulture in general.

My goal is really just to add bends into these trees let them grow thick, slip pot them every year or so, and prune them back a little every now and then to clean it up a bit and stop lower branches from being covered by those above. When I am liking how they look then start the next stage I guess.

One of my junipers has a "Y" shaped trunk though, I was thinking of removing the thicker trunk and bending the thinner one to help with taper and movement. Thoughts on this?

Thanks for the advice and links also!

 

[Tntthunder]

Random movement should give you something more “natural” to work with later, so don’t get too hung up on what is the front now, that may well change. You also don’t want concentric spirals or loops, because they will always look contrived. Make some extreme bends side to side, front to back, and then let the tree grow in the ground or oversized pot for a few years. Don’t let the wires get buried; leave them long enough to set the bend, remove the wires and let the tree grow into the new shape. After the tree puts out a lot of foliage, it will start to put on some wood. That’s what you want, but it takes time with junipers.

On trimming for directional growth, here is an example of a cut (red) and expected resulting growth (green). Have fun, looks like decent foliage.




View attachment 459425

This has really helped answer a few of my questions. The drawing also helped a bunch to understand, thanks!

One question though in the drawing there is quite a bit of height from the cut on the branch to the junction(?) of the young branch. Was that just happened to be where you drew the cut or is is that little "extra" left for a particular reason like die back or something?

 

[Shibui]

One of my junipers has a "Y" shaped trunk though, I was thinking of removing the thicker trunk and bending the thinner one to help with taper and movement. Thoughts on this?

Not sure I can give an informed answer without seeing each tree.
Generally removing the thicker fork is a good way to add movement and taper to any bonsai. The question is when. Also how the remaining branch fits in with the lower part of the trunk. Every tree is slightly different and may need a different approach.