I'm not going to start cutting branches off until I can get some direction going and I'm just going to let it grow since any work now would best be done next year. Elms can take a lot of shit but that doesnt mean I'm going to trunk chop this elm tonight. I was thinking of chopping it down to the second twig. If anything one of the two apex needs to go but even this isnt an easy decision. To me the obvious apex is the one that changes directions but the chop will be huge because of the reverse taper issue on the apex that leans back which is the way the trunk seems to go if this left on almost an arch that wouldmt be helped no matter the planting angle. and I tried to capture a variety of angles to best convey the tree in its entirety
A friend of mine gave me a corkbark elm and if this was given to you what would you do with it.....
- Thread starter Benny w
- Start date
Harry Bushwhacker
Yamadori
Would an air layer be an option with this tree?
bonsaichile
Omono
How would an airlayer fix the reverse taper on the apex?
Harry Bushwhacker
Yamadori
I’m new to this so I may be blowing smoke out my backside, and if I am, I apologize. My thinking was that a there would be the possibility to air layer so that roots would sprout from the knobby part of the tree towards the top,in the area I’ve circled. As stated, might have no clue what I’m talking about and if so, I’m sorry.
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bonsaichile
Omono
I would simply chop it off
bwaynef
Masterpiece
I'd look to see if there is a tree that could be airlayered out of the apex first. After that, I'd chop it back in late winter and start over. There's a lot of trunk there that isn't interesting.
I'm thinking if I were to chop it maybe here would be where I would do it. I've never attempted broom or raft trees so maybe the broom would be cool with this one even though it's trunk isnt super straight I think I could still pull it off with some guidance and I believe smoke has a thread on here how to (wedge) and get that growth that naturally wants to radiate outwards to grow inwards so the subs dont cause reverse taper. I think it was smoke or correct me if anyone has seen that thread somewhere in this forum?
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I wouldnt airlayer this tree because the air layer portion above the chop would be boring and set me back time wise. I would try to propagate it but the method I'm thinking of isnt the most scientific. I'm excited to propagate the roots if anything which is always a good time with elms
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
I agree that this one is not worth layering. Layering is often suggested for poor trees. As Benny has said, layering sets progress back nearly 12 months and having 2 crap trees is twice as bad as having one crap tree. you can probably buy a good tree for reasonable money rather than spending a year getting another ordinary one.
Root cuttings are a great way to grow new elms, especially if you're after small trees. Roots sometimes have far better twists and bends than branches and you can get good taper difference between the root and any new shoots.
The tree posted has a long trunk with little taper. Long term a low chop will probably produce a far more desirable tree. Just need to be committed to 5-10 year development to achieve it.
Root cuttings are a great way to grow new elms, especially if you're after small trees. Roots sometimes have far better twists and bends than branches and you can get good taper difference between the root and any new shoots.
The tree posted has a long trunk with little taper. Long term a low chop will probably produce a far more desirable tree. Just need to be committed to 5-10 year development to achieve it.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Beginners always turn to air layering instead of outright chops. That is mostly a waste of time and effort. Air layering is used when there is something worth the time and trouble. This trunk isn't worth it and is a waste of time. As noted, this trunk has inverse taper and/or no taper--an air layer would produce trees with no taper or inverse taper. Best concentrate on the useable part of this trunk--the bottom third.
A hard chop lower down will indeed produce a pretty good elm with a short development time.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I think that's a ....swell...idea!
Provided that left trunk above doesn't also have reverse taper.
What's 12 months to 10 years?
Forgive me....
But I absolutely can't stand this "layering is a setback" thing.
What are we really losing?
Half the vigour?
Sorce
BrianBay9
Masterpiece
I think layering is an option if the OP wants additional cork bark elms to work with. It may not be the best apex to layer in the world, but one can work with it. It will set you back three months in the spring to air layer if you want two trees.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
I wouldn't discount the idea of layering, one could probably layer off several branches and the upper trunk at least. It would be a 1 year set back which is small compared to the total development time of the tree. Of course, this is an elm and they root easily, so you might be able to just cut off pieces and get them to root. OP would have to determine if there are any sections that are worth layering or trying to root other ways, it's really pretty tough to tell from the photos.
Another option, OP could layer low (somewhat above the proposed low trunk chop site) and then use the layered section for a stock plant or just put it in the ground to develop a larger base tree. Many possibilities.
Another option, OP could layer low (somewhat above the proposed low trunk chop site) and then use the layered section for a stock plant or just put it in the ground to develop a larger base tree. Many possibilities.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I appreciate the truer 3 months of this dreaded "setback".
I also despise it even more.
Let me explain.
I think it's easiest to understand the ONLY way we think of time appropriately in Bonsai.
Where we decandle based on a countback of 100 days from the first frost.
Everything should be calculated in this manner.
Points on the timeline being....
Last frost. Summer Solstice. First Frost.
We can't be setback 3 months, because the Solstice still comes, and first frost still comes.
A "3 month setback" infers a linear time, but we are more, placing this 3 months on the cycle for 3 months.
There is no setback, this is an impossible thought.
This misunderstanding of time ruins fertilizer,because we "fertilize every three weeks" or BS that doesn't make sense.
Fertilizer is only useful between frosts.
Growing seasons can vary in length by near 200 days! So in order to convey this information properly, we need to think in these terms, percentages of time between actions and frosts. Percentages of time between natural tree actions and Frosts, Solstice.
Hell, you see even I'm speaking about the summer Solstice only, where someone may also use the winter solstice and they get no frost!
Blah.
This misunderstanding damages a lot of potential, In people, and trees.
Resorce.
Sorce
BrianBay9
Masterpiece
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Id chop here too and regrow the rest. You can try growing the top as a cutting. If it strikes, cool. If it doesnt, no big deal.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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One option is to significantly increase the height and width of this tree, and the corresponding trunk diameter increase. If you double the height of this tree, and controlled zones of growth to eliminate areas of reverse taper. This would take the tree from medium size to a large size bonsai, but it is one way to turn "a sow's ear into a silk purse".
It is an option.
It is an option.
Fresno california
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
No real winter!
Sorce
Sorce
This is correct but we get plenty of nights around 32 to 40 degrees and one bad freeze every ten years. Working in the citrus industry is crazy when that happens which we are overdue since the last real freeze was in 2007. Turned on wind machines 17 nights in a row that year and State of California ran out of propane which is important since most wind machines engines are propane. So on the more expensive citrus blocks like the cuties you get at Costco the outfit I worked for hired helicopters to just hover those blocks for hours in one spot. Tangent over.
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