A little advice and help please..? 🙂

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#21
Why would it be holding too much water? When I water it, it leaks straight through into the drip tray, also I put my finger like a inch or so down into the soil before I water, and most of the time it is dry. So surely it's not holding water badly??
Sometimes an issue will arise where the core of the soil ball/mass will become almost impermeable and almost nothing you can do short of renuing the soil ball/mass will resolve the issue. Failure to address this problem can set up a condition where the center of the tree rots out. Even though it seems the drainage of the soil ball/mass is working it is only draining around the sides of the soil ball and the center/core remains dry and dying.
 
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#22
Yay more UK people... :).
Keep going on this forum and learning online, it’ll be fine.
No point me repeating what’s already been said here, people are right. When you water, does the water run off to the side or slowly sink in to the center of the soil mass?
 

Lottie

Seedling
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#23
Yay more UK people... :).
Keep going on this forum and learning online, it’ll be fine.
No point me repeating what’s already been said here, people are right. When you water, does the water run off to the side or slowly sink in to the center of the soil mass?
Hey :D errrrm I guess tbh it does kind of roll to the side then sink through the soil and some out through the drip tray. Definitely going to get some new soil 👍
 

rockm

Imperial Masterpiece
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#25
No need for panic.
IF the organic soil it's been growing in ( it's alive, isn't it?) is holding up a lot of moisture, water the tree less for the moment.
There are many examples of centuries old bonsai thriving in "not modern" soil.
When the time is right in the season and the tree is healthy, yes, repot it in less organic soil.
"There are many examples of centuries old bonsai thriving in "not modern" soil."

this is an extremely misleading statement. The "not modern" soil for centuries old bonsai is not garden soil from the UK or bagged potting soil from Walmart. The Japanese and Chinese were very successful growing bonsai because of the soil that is native in those countries. I Japan, the soils are of VOLCANIC origin and tend to be open, porous and free draining. The Japanese in particular understood that and sought out specific soils to use...Unless you have access to those kinds of volcanic soils--akadama, kanuma, etc. organic-based soil like this is a death sentence for most beginner trees...and yes, there is a bit of urgency here. Yellowing dropping leaves when the tree should be putting out spring growth is a very bad sign.
 
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Larissa, Greece
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#26
I've had the exact same problem with my chinese elm last year because I used to spray the leaves with water two or three times a day. Healthy green leaves got black spots, then turned yellow and fell off. It's some sort of fungus and should be treated with fungicide. Here's a photo of mine. IMG_20170418_154703.jpg
 
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#27
The "not modern" soil for centuries old bonsai is not garden soil from the UK or bagged potting soil from Walmart.
Yes, you are right.
It depends on the location, of course.
My experience, specially with tropical (local) trees is, the nursery soils will hold for a long time before need for repotting. Jabuticabas (Plinia cauliflora), Malphighias (Barbados Cherry), Calliandras Selloi (Powder Puff), Eugenias Uniflora (Surinam Cherry), they all like wet feet, and organic soil is OK with them, in our climate.
Sorry, I was not clear.
 

Lottie

Seedling
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#28
I've had the exact same problem with my chinese elm last year because I used to spray the leaves with water two or three times a day. Healthy green leaves got black spots, then turned yellow and fell off. It's some sort of fungus and should be treated with fungicide. Here's a photo of mine. View attachment 187203
Ahhh Thanks very much!! Sounds similar to mine. I did think about buying fungicide anyway to keep by me in case. 😃
 

milehigh_7

Mister 500,000
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#29
A little first aid to get Frank headed in the right direction is in order. Water him really well with a 1:4 peroxide (3% from the drug store) / water solution. Then weekly at about 1:10. This will oxygenate your soil and kill (or help kill) any beasties that are growing down there. Then follow the other instructions (like those from @rockm).
 
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#31
I've had the exact same problem with my chinese elm last year because I used to spray the leaves with water two or three times a day. Healthy green leaves got black spots, then turned yellow and fell off. It's some sort of fungus and should be treated with fungicide. Here's a photo of mine. View attachment 187203
That’s black spot. A common ailment among elms and exactly what I am fighting by applying fungicide (Rose clear 3-1).
Don’t mist elms.. it’s just my opinion and from research but don’t do it.. watering elms on an elm will encourage black spot. Especially on fresh new leaves that have just sprouted. Once the leaves harden off in summer, then you can get them wet.
 
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#32
Oh and Chinese elms don't need dormancy ever. They are subtropicals and in many places, they never go dormant at all. None of mine did this year. They can and will do fine in cooler climates but certainly, dormancy is not a necessity.
This is a very interesting thing to say! I’ve never ever heard of that before.. I’d be very scared to live by that with my elms, from what Ive always read and learnt. I think dormancy is healthy and good for trees any way, why not let them.
 
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#33
I think dormancy is healthy and good for trees any way, why not let them.
If you lived in a tropical country, you would quickly discover that winters are a joke here; much like summers in some North American states. So, not cold enough to establish a "true" dormancy; JWP, for instance, are impossible to be grown here. But Elms... They can stand a lot of injuries, and yes, some of them turn yellowish, others lose their leaves, but most Elms here go through winter as they were in Fall. Bad for them? I believe so, but they thrive again next summer.
 

milehigh_7

Mister 500,000
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#34
This is a very interesting thing to say! I’ve never ever heard of that before.. I’d be very scared to live by that with my elms, from what Ive always read and learnt. I think dormancy is healthy and good for trees any way, why not let them.
With plants, you need to consider what they do in nature. Where these grow as landscape they many times don't go dormant at all. If winter temps stay above 40F 4.4C they won't lose their leaves ever. It's funny I see many people forget that plants like bougainvillea are native to tropical Brazil and for best result that climate should be mimicked. Some varieties of Ulmus parvifolia such as 'True Green' were developed to almost never drop leaves.
 

milehigh_7

Mister 500,000
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#36
In fact Ulmus P. flowers in the fall when most others flower in the spring. That's why it is seldom crossed and evidence that it has different care requirements. You can cross them but you need to viably store pollen and pollinate the desired trees manually with a paintbrush. You can then cover the flowers with a tied on paper bag.
 

Vin

Masterpiece
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#37
Sometimes an issue will arise where the core of the soil ball/mass will become almost impermeable and almost nothing you can do short of renuing the soil ball/mass will resolve the issue. Failure to address this problem can set up a condition where the center of the tree rots out. Even though it seems the drainage of the soil ball/mass is working it is only draining around the sides of the soil ball and the center/core remains dry and dying.
I tried to explain this in another thread but maybe my explanation wasn't as good as yours. Thanks for a better version than mine.
 
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#39
I would have thought it's an unnecessary step at this point now. Foliage would have hardened off enough that a dip in temperate overnight every now and then wouldn't do any harm I would think, but won't do any harm either... extra peace of mind I guess!
 

Smoke

Imperial Masterpiece
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#40
That’s black spot. A common ailment among elms and exactly what I am fighting by applying fungicide (Rose clear 3-1).
Don’t mist elms.. it’s just my opinion and from research but don’t do it.. watering elms on an elm will encourage black spot. Especially on fresh new leaves that have just sprouted. Once the leaves harden off in summer, then you can get them wet.
I would have thought it's an unnecessary step at this point now. Foliage would have hardened off enough that a dip in temperate overnight every now and then wouldn't do any harm I would think, but won't do any harm either... extra peace of mind I guess!

Oh Boy! more fun with hardening off. The most misunderstood term in bonsai....why? because it should never be in the bonsai vocabulary.
Like all anthracnose fungus in maples OR elms and most all deciduous trees the disease is there the year previous, just like in maples of which I have spoken ad nauseum, but no one listens. I'm gonna change my screen name to Ryan Neil and see if things improve.
The name of the fungus is Stegophora (syn. Gnomonia) ulmea. It is set up in the previous years growth and shows up in the current year when the buds open. It has nothing to do with whether the leaves are hardened or not. In fact it is during the summer when the humidity is low and things are drier that the fungus goes into hybernation and comes alive in the fall when the conditions are met again. In the summer you may think that the leaves hardening off has controlled the fungus but it will be back and ready to show it self next spring unless you change your ways.

Controlling it is simple. Use common sense. Look in a nursery or the nursersy section of your favorite store. There products called DORMANT DISEASE CONTROL. They are meant to be used while the tree is in dormancy. Most usually it is dilute lime sulpher. I have no idea about these products in the UK.

In the spring when buds begin to open continue the control by weekly applications of a fungicide. Copper or daconil work well.


AGAIN PEOPLE FUNGUS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LEAF HARDENING, IT AFFECTS NEW LEAVES CAUSE ITS ALREADY THERE!!!!o_O

http://entoweb.okstate.edu/ddd/diseases/elmblackspot.htm
http://cemarin.ucanr.edu/Programs/Custom_Program97/Tree_Deseases/Chinese_Elm_Anthracnose/
 

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