A nice discusion among friends: Do bonsai realy have to look like a big size tree?

[Martin Sweeney]

King Kong,

Is that one of your trees? It is exceptional. Can you share some details about it? Specie, specs, how you acquired it, etc?

Regards,
Martin

 

[king kong]

Come on Martin, I can't do everything.lol No, the tree is just an example of a bonsai that looks like a tree. It came from a "best of" web site but that is all I can tell you, it was in Chinese.

 

[Walter Pall]

king kong,

this bonsai does not look like a tree AT ALL. It clearly looks like a manufactured bonsai. No tree would ever grow like this.

 

[king kong]

Touche Walter. I will give you a touch but no point. lol Maybe not in Germany, but in Florida they are all over the place,they just need a little trimming.

 

[Walter Pall]

king kong,

and you seriously think that the previous bonsai looks very much like the pine from Florida? This example shows how corrupted bonsai folks are in their vision. The bonsai does not look like your pine tree at all. It is not even an abstraction of it. It is universes away from resembling your pine tree. I believe that you think it is, but this is due to your bonsai background which distorts our vision of real trees totally.

 

[king kong]

Your right Walter, I am a looser just pulling on people's chains but I am enjoying the heck out of it!
Have a nice day. By the way the tree is a bald cypress and those are cows in the back ground.

 

[greerhw]

Your right Walter, I am a looser just pulling on people's chains but I am enjoying the heck out of it!
Have a nice day. By the way the tree is a bald cypress and those are cows in the back ground.

Cows GOOD !!! Bald Cypress :-(

 

[king kong]

Your just like what your god Coach Stoops preaches Harry "lets kickem while there down".

 

[greerhw]

Your just like what your god Coach Stoops preaches Harry "lets kickem while there down".

It ain't kickball out here in the heartland like the rest of the world plays. Sometimes you just have to do some arse kicking, what can I say. Like we use to say at the night drag racing on the unfinished interstates when I was a kid "run what ya brung"

Harry

 

[king kong]

That's fine but Stoops insists that they were not trying to get ' style points'. Starting QB, 4th quarter, 55 yard pass plays...please.

 

[greerhw]

The more I think about this rule thing, this tree should look like this and that tree should look like that. It's all smoke and mirrors anyway. Nine out of ten of Walters trees wouldn't last here in Oklahoma long enough for me to get drunk on tequila. His trees are beautiful and I enjoy looking at them. I envy him his climate that he can keep any kind of tree he wants. All my trees are pines and junipers, because that's what I can keep healthy. I don't know what it's like to set a tree on a stand and leave it all year, or even a month. Should trees look like nature created them, if that floats your boat, go for it, But don't look down your nose at those of us are happy if we just keep a tree healthy.
I have about 25 trees and not one of them look anything like a tree in nature. It takes nature about a hundred years or more to create some of her best work. It took some little Japanese guy about 25 years to create mine. There are too many rules in the real world that I'm forced to follow, hell if I'm going to follow all of them in a HOBBY( did you get that, HOBBY) because somebody says I should.

Harry

 

[Victrinia Ensor]

king kong,

and you seriously think that the previous bonsai looks very much like the pine from Florida? This example shows how corrupted bonsai folks are in their vision. The bonsai does not look like your pine tree at all. It is not even an abstraction of it. It is universes away from resembling your pine tree. I believe that you think it is, but this is due to your bonsai background which distorts our vision of real trees totally.

Walter,

Whatever KK’s position, or whatever his interpretation of that tree… the use of his previous example, which involved a tree of yours, shows that he sees just fine.

I’m not sure how one makes the leap from his bonsai background (which is more than acceptable in its own right) and the distortion of our vision of real trees. I’ve seen some of his bonsai; I can assure you that I came away none the worse for ware. ;o)

To say that there is a skewed vision of what bonsai can be from a naturalist’s perspective is quite true. Often people have no idea just what is possible in nature. As a dear friend has said, a person is limited by the scope of their visual experience. If you have never seen great trees in nature, how would you know you were getting it right? What might seem like a fantastical expression is clearly possible…. again…. referencing the example KK showed of the “krum-whatever-that-word-is” and your tree. Look at the mountain hemlock trees from North Vancouver Island… again… amazing trees which could very well look like the tree currently under contention.


In any case…

To avoid a total hijack of this thread, I will answer the original question with my own thoughts… I do not think that our work must/needs to represent a real tree in nature. If one is trying to connect with another individual through the medium, creating a “real” looking tree can be a useful tool to making that connection. Take Elandan… there is a tree there which is a perfect representation of a very typical conifer. The reaction people have to it often tells me a lot about their experience/exposure to the art. Often those who have no level of involvement in the art love that tree the most. It reaches across, enchanting and delighting them. I do not do this art solely for my own pleasure. If I can create something that connects with other people, especially those who are not part of the art… because I want to intrigue them… then I am content enough. Then again… I equally enjoy creating visions which are not exclusively meant to engage a non-enthusiast… so it’s about what is possible with the material at hand. But does it have to be a recognizable tree to be credible? Not in my opinion.


Kindest regards to all,

Victrinia

 

[GerhardG]

To say that there is a skewed vision of what bonsai can be from a naturalist’s perspective is quite true. Often people have no idea just what is possible in nature. As a dear friend has said, a person is limited by the scope of their visual experience. If you have never seen great trees in nature, how would you know you were getting it right?

Very true.

My whole life I've been seeing trees which starts as a bush, and if it gets old enough it's got a flat top, and it's main purpose in life is to provide food and shade/shelter for animals.
No formal uprights, no triangles meant to shed snow. Here, all the triangles are inverted.

All my trees are pines and junipers, because that's what I can keep healthy. I don't know what it's like to set a tree on a stand and leave it all year, or even a month

And no shallow (enough) pots?
I'm barely into this hobby, and already I've more than once considered growing ONLY Acacia, and most likely all in the (natural) Pierneef-style....

Regards,
Gerhard

 

[Chris Johnston]

king kong,

and you seriously think that the previous bonsai looks very much like the pine from Florida? This example shows how corrupted bonsai folks are in their vision. The bonsai does not look like your pine tree at all. It is not even an abstraction of it. It is universes away from resembling your pine tree. I believe that you think it is, but this is due to your bonsai background which distorts our vision of real trees totally.

I thought this thread was titled, "A nice discus(s)ion among friends." Walter, while you may not have intended this reply to be condescending, it reads a bit that way.

 

[king kong]

Dueling bonsai

Maybe Walter's passion got the best of him but lets channel this enthusiasm in a interesting direction. I will challenge Walter to a Bonsai-duel in defense of my honor as a fellow bonsai artist. There will be no verbal discourse, no pistols in combat just bonsai, one against one. The viewers will be the judge of the engagement if Walter so kindly excepts the challenge. I will start a new thread to describe the bonsai-duel in further detail. May the best bonsai win!

 

[Walter Pall]

kk,

oh sure I accept your offer. Do I have to sharpen my Masakuni tools? Well, I don't have Masakuni tools. Exactly because it is so difficult to sharpen them. Or do we use diegrinders? Or the torch?
Boy, this is going to be fun. Or do we throw collected trees at each other?

This is my idea: You throw a turkey and I throw this maple. BTW, the maple does not look like a tree eihter. It looks like firewood at this moment. The turkey must not be frozen!

 

[greerhw]

This is a wild honeysuckle from the Alps, Lonicera xylostemum. I have tried to make it look like a nice shrub.
Why not? Who says that bonsai is about old looking trees only?
For me this is a very serious bonsai.

Sorry Walter, I can't go along with you on this one, it looks like something my wife would set in the kitchen window.

Harry

 

[Walter Pall]

Harry,

you are not the first one to say this. Many say that it is a very nice accent plant, but not a serious bonsai. Well, about fifteen years ago I thought that shohin trees were nice accent objects, but not for serious. Times are changing, so do tastes.

 

[irene_b]

The one constant in Life is Change.
Irene