A question on candle reduction-Red pine

[Emeraldtarpon]

I have very few pines so not a lot of knowledge with these trees and was wondering about the following.Any help would be much appreciated, thank you nutters.
I aquired myself a nice red pine recently that doesnt seem to have much work done in the way of candle pinching etc.
The foliage mass is still fairly compact-ish with plenty of needles behind the candles,running atleast half way down most of the branches...needles are still a bit large though.

Im about to follow this technique for a start....
Leave smallest,weakest candles untouched and reduce the medium and largest size candles down to the size of the weakest candles or as close to as possible (depending where the tiny new needles on the candles start...ive noted NOT to go below these).Theory being it balances the energy the tree puts into the new growth?
Would this be the best option at this stage or should i be cutting back into the needles along the branch.
Here's a photo that shows all three candle sizes...smallest (weakest), medium and largest (most of the largest candles have pollen cones attached).
Would this approach be the right choice at this stage?

 

[Emeraldtarpon]

Sorry...this is my red pine prior to any work taking place (as purchased).

 

[Emeraldtarpon]

That pot is definately going (when time comes) : )

 

[Shibui]

The candles have not finished growing yet. Only grown enough to bear pollen cones but most of those candles will continue to grow as the needles open out - usually through to December.
Mid December is the optimum time to decandle in this area. If you cut before that the new candles will be too long again.
Decandling will give a bunch of new shoots right at the decandling site but few below that. Many of those branches look to be way too long to give good ramification on a tree that size as they probably were not cut last year. I'd certainly be considering cutting further back to get more ramification.

Usually use harder pruning during development and initial ramification stages then move on to decandling techniques to finish building ramification and to maintain compact shape and size.

Hard to see all the branch forks but I suspect there are at least a few forks with more than one branch. Looks like there's plenty of branches there so a good opportunity to thin out any clusters.

 

[Emeraldtarpon]

The candles have not finished growing yet. Only grown enough to bear pollen cones but most of those candles will continue to grow as the needles open out - usually through to December.
Mid December is the optimum time to decandle in this area. If you cut before that the new candles will be too long again.
Decandling will give a bunch of new shoots right at the decandling site but few below that. Many of those branches look to be way too long to give good ramification on a tree that size as they probably were not cut last year. I'd certainly be considering cutting further back to get more ramification.

Usually use harder pruning during development and initial ramification stages then move on to decandling techniques to finish building ramification and to maintain compact shape and size.

Hard to see all the branch forks but I suspect there are at least a few forks with more than one branch. Looks like there's plenty of branches there so a good opportunity to thin out any clusters.

Hi Neil
I understand what youre saying about branch length and ramification and was considering reducing the branches due to this.
It'll set me back one or two seasons but im sure the result will be worth it.
Im not going to worry too much about wiring the branches at the moment, just a bit of a clean up etc at this stage.
Just prune the branches back and leave it for now...let the tree put all its energy into back budding.
Bit of a set-back but definately worthwhile...and im old and patient now anyway : )

 

[Emeraldtarpon]

Neil, i forgot to ask....when would be the best time be to reduce the branches - thank you in advance

 

[Potawatomi13]

Be aware Red Pine has reputation as more brittle than JBP. Careful when bending. Thicker harder to bend.

 

[Emeraldtarpon]

Be aware Red Pine has reputation as more brittle than JBP. Careful when bending. Thicker harder to bend.

Thanks pot...i appreciate the warning, will keep that in mind when the time comes.

 

[Shibui]

I understand what youre saying about branch length and ramification and was considering reducing the branches due to this.
It'll set me back one or two seasons but im sure the result will be worth it.
Im not going to worry too much about wiring the branches at the moment, just a bit of a clean up etc at this stage.
Just prune the branches back and leave it for now...let the tree put all its energy into back budding.
Bit of a set-back but definately worthwhile...and im old and patient now anyway : )

Pruning for branch density is never setback. it is necessary work. Developing a bonsai with long, spindly branches is the real setback. You don't actually notice at the time but when the old needles drop off you will suddenly notice the problem but by then it is too late to correct. You still have the opportunity so take advantage.

Wiring can come later. Despite the rep for brittle branching I have not had any problem. Young branches are definitely still really flexible for quiet a few years so I can only guess that brittle comes with much older branches.

You can prune 2 flush pines any time of year. Response varies a little but they will bud any time. Spring pruning results in strong new shoots that may need further pruning to maintain compact growth. Late spring (end Nov-mid Dec which is normal decandling time for dual flush pines here) gives shorter new shoots. Later summer and autumn prune often results in very little response until the following spring but new shoots will grow, usually quite strong.
Given you have the tree now and it is spring here I'd feed well for the next month then prune this one in November or early December.

 

[Emeraldtarpon]

Pruning for branch density is never setback. it is necessary work. Developing a bonsai with long, spindly branches is the real setback. You don't actually notice at the time but when the old needles drop off you will suddenly notice the problem but by then it is too late to correct. You still have the opportunity so take advantage.

Wiring can come later. Despite the rep for brittle branching I have not had any problem. Young branches are definitely still really flexible for quiet a few years so I can only guess that brittle comes with much older branches.

You can prune 2 flush pines any time of year. Response varies a little but they will bud any time. Spring pruning results in strong new shoots that may need further pruning to maintain compact growth. Late spring (end Nov-mid Dec which is normal decandling time for dual flush pines here) gives shorter new shoots. Later summer and autumn prune often results in very little response until the following spring but new shoots will grow, usually quite strong.
Given you have the tree now and it is spring here I'd feed well for the next month then prune this one in November or early December.

Thank you for your assistance.
Sorry i chose the wrong word...i didnt mean a setback as such. Its just a delay in development but it can be rectified easily and is quite an enjoyable part of the overall process.
I'll start feeding in prep for November pruning.
There is a good amount of healthy, inner growth on this tree so inducing back budding should give me a good result.