A subforum about penjing...

Fidur

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I would like to suggest this, because I think there some of us that enjoy penjing creations. That doesn't mean we dislike bonsai, in fact bonsai is to me the first step. A good penjing must include bonsai at it best in my opinion.
I'm usually ashamed to post anything related to penjing, just because it seems that some of the members do not appreciate it. With a subforum about penjing, talking about stones, landscape scenes or suiban should be wonderful......
So please, can it be done or is it too heretic?
 
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Paradox

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huh? What happened? No one even responded yet.

I think a lot of people here are open to other forms of bonsai type things.

We have had posts about viewing stones (suiseki), scrolls, and other things that might not technically fit into pure bonsai but are nonetheless appreciated.

Since Penjing is a fairly different form, I could see where a section for it might be interesting
 
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HorseloverFat

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I took the Penjing dive, myself...learned about the different schools of methodology.... learned the varying terminology for presentation/composition..Learned how the history ties into different areas of Provincial China,. how the Rule (of China) effected the arts.

I've done this with Bonsai, too... and also am in the process of studying Hon Non Bo in this same fashion..

But what I've really found... is it's a 10-1 horse a piece - thing.

We don't necessarily NEED anymore sub-forums..

Just POSTing more Penjing/Penzai/Penchi in the areas where they WOULD fit... would create this effect..

No more separation... inclusion...

No one will mind a "Chinese" Forest Planting in the "Japanese" forest Planting section.

And Penzai is just a tree in a pot.,. we have SIZE and SPECIES specific forums.. No one will mind "Penzai/Penchi" Maples in the "Bonsai" Maples section.

🤓
 

ZombieNick

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I took the Penjing dive, myself...learned about the different schools of methodology.... learned the varying terminology for presentation/composition..Learned how the history ties into different areas of Provincial China,. how the Rule (of China) effected the arts.

I've done this with Bonsai, too... and also am in the process of studying Hon Non Bo in this same fashion..

But what I've really found... is it's a 10-1 horse a piece - thing.

We don't necessarily NEED anymore sub-forums..

Just POSTing more Penjing/Penzai/Penchi in the areas where they WOULD fit... would create this effect..

No more separation... inclusion...

No one will mind a "Chinese" Forest Planting in the "Japanese" forest Planting section.

And Penzai is just a tree in a pot.,. we have SIZE and SPECIES specific forums.. No one will mind "Penzai/Penchi" Maples in the "Bonsai" Maples section.

🤓
You're my guy then. So, the Chinese garden at the Huntington Library here in Southern California opened awhile back and I have been obsessed with some of the trees in the garden. There are many very obvious Penjing style, but others seem more traditional bonsai. Most are displayed how I understand Penjing is displayed traditionally (against a white backdrop to show the tree's shadow). My questions is, are these trees considered Penjing style, and if so, what school or practice would they fall into:
1657222224140.png1657222241797.png1657222260328.png1657222361263.png
 

HorseloverFat

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You're my guy then. So, the Chinese garden at the Huntington Library here in Southern California opened awhile back and I have been obsessed with some of the trees in the garden. There are many very obvious Penjing style, but others seem more traditional bonsai. Most are displayed how I understand Penjing is displayed traditionally (against a white backdrop to show the tree's shadow). My questions is, are these trees considered Penjing style, and if so, what school or practice would they fall into:
View attachment 445828View attachment 445829View attachment 445830View attachment 445831
I'm not ignoring this.. just have no time to fully respond!...

I will type up an analysis once that darn sun goes down and stops making all my plants s'damn thirsty!

🤓
 

ShadyStump

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I took the Penjing dive, myself...learned about the different schools of methodology.... learned the varying terminology for presentation/composition..Learned how the history ties into different areas of Provincial China,. how the Rule (of China) effected the arts.

I've done this with Bonsai, too... and also am in the process of studying Hon Non Bo in this same fashion..

But what I've really found... is it's a 10-1 horse a piece - thing.

We don't necessarily NEED anymore sub-forums..

Just POSTing more Penjing/Penzai/Penchi in the areas where they WOULD fit... would create this effect..

No more separation... inclusion...

No one will mind a "Chinese" Forest Planting in the "Japanese" forest Planting section.

And Penzai is just a tree in a pot.,. we have SIZE and SPECIES specific forums.. No one will mind "Penzai/Penchi" Maples in the "Bonsai" Maples section.

🤓
Because penjing - and for that matter hon non bo as well - can encompass a vast array of crafts, or at least ones with quite different foci, I think a subforum might be practical.
There's no place on the site for posting rock penjing, for example. It just won't fit in suiseki. It's entirely different except for the use of rocks.

While normally I'd agree with you, the purpose of the separate subforums is organizational. They make it easy for people researching and looking for ideas in a specific genre or effect to browse.
Think of the site more like a library than social media.

Maybe not a forum specific to just penjing, but maybe titled Penjing, Hon Non Bo, and Other Related Fields, or even just Landscapes. A sort of catch-all for everything not necessarily tree related, and friendly to other-than-Japanese tradition and interpretation.

I'd love to hear @Fidur 's thoughts, as soon as he's ready.
 

Fidur

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I think we can agree on using the actual forest, saiseki subforum, and maybe change a bit the title to something like "Forest, saiseki, penjing and related..."
It would be enough for me at least.....
Thanks all for your contributions to this thread!
 

rockm

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You're my guy then. So, the Chinese garden at the Huntington Library here in Southern California opened awhile back and I have been obsessed with some of the trees in the garden. There are many very obvious Penjing style, but others seem more traditional bonsai. Most are displayed how I understand Penjing is displayed traditionally (against a white backdrop to show the tree's shadow). My questions is, are these trees considered Penjing style, and if so, what school or practice would they fall into:
View attachment 445828View attachment 445829View attachment 445830View attachment 445831
These are Chinese, so they're not really technically "bonsai" which is Japanese. Technically, I think they're "Lingnan" style trees, a school of penjing from Guangdong province near Hong Hong in Southern China. Differentiating Penjing from Bonsai can sometimes bea distinction without a difference. Other times, the differences are dramatic.

"Penjing" covers a pretty large contingent of styles and compositions. Jingzhi penjing is a tree set off by rocks, miniatures and other stuff in the container. Shansui penjing, is basically stones used as a miniature landscape in a shallow container, similar to Japanese Karensansui (garden stone arrangements)only in a pot. Penzai, as I understand it, is more individual trees more similar to bonsai, although both are used interchangeably. Styles of individual trees vary tremendously according to various regional "schools" of style-from unnatural more abstract impressionistic styles such as "floating cloud" trees, to Lingnan (which is usually naturalistic, single trees).

I think there is more than adequate room for penjing here without sequestering it to a subcategory. That, I think, would be restricting, as most of the techniques and design questions for both are shared....
 

ShadyStump

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I think there is more than adequate room for penjing here without sequestering it to a subcategory. That, I think, would be restricting, as most of the techniques and design questions for both are shared....
You and @HorseloverFat both make good points here, and I agree that subforums just for penjing styles vs bonsai styles is unnecessary, but I'm with @Fidur in believing a subforum focusing on landscape would be appropriate. It involves such potential variety of techniques that would otherwise have posts cluttering up existing categories or the general discussion board.

Again, my concern is for those times we use this site like a reference library. It may not seem to make a significant difference now, but in two or three years it would be very useful to those looking for help in that specific endeavor.
 
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ShadyStump

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Remember you can always tag threads. That allows for much more specific reference searching that just browsing a subforum.
You're right, but I never remember to tag mine, and assume I'm no exception.
I also assume that others, like me, tend to just browse for ideas when considering a new project. That's really, as far as I can tell, to only useful purpose for having the various subforum categories, that and people who specialize. Both cases, benefit from a sub for landscapes and forest plantings.

I mean where do we put a forest planting now? If it's single species we can put it in that species sub, or one of the "other" subs, or it fills up the general discussion board. If it's mixed species, now things are getting tougher. If it's landscape based AND mixed, now we have to clutter up the general discussion.

Even with the proposed new subforum we still have the option to put landscapes and forests elsewhere if we feel it's more appropriate, but no longer struggle to find the appropriate place if we don't. Put it under the "Styling Forums" section I think would be the place.
 

nuttiest

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I want to go back to fairy gardens. If I posted something, it would go in subcategory best suited like 'other gardening' But the second you post, the people who just click on new posts instead of general would be all freaked I think
 

HorseloverFat

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You're my guy then. So, the Chinese garden at the Huntington Library here in Southern California opened awhile back and I have been obsessed with some of the trees in the garden. There are many very obvious Penjing style, but others seem more traditional bonsai. Most are displayed how I understand Penjing is displayed traditionally (against a white backdrop to show the tree's shadow). My questions is, are these trees considered Penjing style, and if so, what school or practice would they fall into:
View attachment 445828View attachment 445829View attachment 445830View attachment 445831
I wish my answer could've been more... romantic.

But these appear to be "broad-swing" PENZAI. as apposed to penCHI or penJING.

With the closest school of thought being the "South of the Mountain (Lingnan) School", teaching jieganxuzhi...

...but will not fall into that category, specifically (but DOES fall into Penzai, quite snugly.), because, TO ME, it seems representative of the FUSION and stylistic actualization of the various "PenWu" art expressions.

This style/fusion began to emerge throughout the Qing dynasty... and was SUPER commonly seen in trees exhibited in Hong Kong and Shanghai areas. (Late-Quarter of 1800's through... well now, I guess 😂😂)

(This ALSO, in my opinion is very similar to many Taiwanese bonsai... it seems to be what they, personally, "liked" the best.)

🤓
 

HorseloverFat

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(PenWU) means "potted plaything"... and is my favorite chinese term for TinyTrees (in general).
 

Cajunrider

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I would like to see Penjing/Hòn Non Bộ etc.. in one sub forum under style. Putting those in Forest subforum is a force fit of too large a group of subjects into a tiny box. Yes there are many trees in those styles that can be put into other subforum for trees. However, in Penjing or Hòn Non Bộ, the setting set the limitation for the trees. Futhermore, there are certain traditionally named settings that called for a particular type of tree or a particular style of tree that people who don't know about the traditionally named settings won't appreciate what the artist is trying to do. Yes we can all appreciate beauty and artistry but just like non-bonsai people not being able to fully appreciate the artistry and effort into making a broom or a formal style bonsai, many of us don't quite get the Penjing or Hòn Non Bộ or any other styles around the world until being informed by the artisans. I know that once created, this subforum will be sparse until we gather a following. I also understand that in the strictest sense, this is BonsaiNut forum and we may just want to literally stick to just bonsai. Do what you may Admin!
 
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