Acacia in Serious Limbo

[vaibatron]

Good day fellow Bnutters,

It’s been quite while since my last post on here. Has been a hectic end and start of my year(s). My father passed the Friday before thanksgiving and my second son was born just last Tuesday. To say this season has been bittersweet, would be an understatement.

Sentiments aside, it probably goes without saying that bonsai has not been top of mind, but now that I am settling back into normal life, it is time to rectify that to some degree.

I’m throwing up some pictures of an Acacia that I bought in 2014. It’s been in this pot for two years planted entirely in turface. I was hesitant to mess with the taproot, so I did very little root work when I potted spring of ‘15.From March-September this thing is a growing machine. I will cut back very hard after the first flush of growth then just hedge cut the rest of the season. It was fully wired once (holy shit, wear gloves!) in ‘16.

This past fall I was a bit careless and left it outside for too long in the cold. It obviously went through a great deal of shock and Lost all of its leaves. However, the branches are still green?? It’s been since late October??

My questions, for more experienced Acacia growers are:

What species is this?
I still haven’t been able to nail it down...
Galpinii, Sieberiana, Burke’s, Robusta?

What are my chances of it waking up?


* current pictures and One from last growing season

Thanks in advance for any help!


It’s good to be back!

 

[just.wing.it]

It’s good to be back!

Sorry to hear about your loss, but congrats on son #2!
Glad your back in action!

I know nothing about Acacia.

 

[Starfox]

Yeah, condolences and congrats.

It will either be a Vachellia or Senegalia sp. Not sure if that will help or hinder with the ID.

Not so sure about these African trees but if there is still some green when you scratch the bark then there is some hope it may wake up in the spring if it is kept from the cold.

 

[sorce]

@Dorian Fourie ....

I would think it assumed "dry season" and won't grow again till its ready.

Sorce

 

[milehigh_7]

View attachment 174498 View attachment 174499 View attachment 174501 View attachment 174502 View attachment 174503 Good day fellow Bnutters,

It’s been quite while since my last post on here. Has been a hectic end and start of my year(s). My father passed the Friday before thanksgiving and my second son was born just last Tuesday. To say this season has been bittersweet, would be an understatement.

Sentiments aside, it probably goes without saying that bonsai has not been top of mind, but now that I am settling back into normal life, it is time to rectify that to some degree.

I’m throwing up some pictures of an Acacia that I bought in 2014. It’s been in this pot for two years planted entirely in turface. I was hesitant to mess with the taproot, so I did very little root work when I potted spring of ‘15.From March-September this thing is a growing machine. I will cut back very hard after the first flush of growth then just hedge cut the rest of the season. It was fully wired once (holy shit, wear gloves!) in ‘16.

This past fall I was a bit careless and left it outside for too long in the cold. It obviously went through a great deal of shock and Lost all of its leaves. However, the branches are still green?? It’s been since late October??

My questions, for more experienced Acacia growers are:

What species is this?
I still haven’t been able to nail it down...
Galpinii, Sieberiana, Burke’s, Robusta?

What are my chances of it waking up?


* current pictures and One from last growing season

Thanks in advance for any help!


It’s good to be back!

Welcome back, I am sorry to hear of your loss but congrats on the kiddo! Can't help you with the ID sorry. If it is still green, you will likely be fine. Don't over water that's the biggest danger when they are not using much...

 

[Starfox]

I would think it assumed "dry season" and won't grow again till its ready.

Yeah, good point. It would seem that some of these species are deciduous or semi deciduous so that may work in the trees favour.

 

[milehigh_7]

I know desert trees like palo verde will drop leaves and even branches when stressed. They will just sit there, sometimes for over a year, until things improve.

 

[sorce]

Aye ...notes on how strict their natural clocks is what I'm looking for, not actively no....

From what I understand, Africa's Clockwork is pretty strict.
Where a Google search of, how long is Zone Blah in Africa's Dry season?
6 months? I'd give it that long.

@Anthony has a rather predictable dry season.

Sorce

 

[vaibatron]

Thank you all for the replies.

My intuition says it will recover. Like I said it is still green and that’s something to hold on to.

Though not really immersed in tropicals, I’ve been in bonsai long enough to know, that even seemingly healthy trees don’t wake up. Add in the factor of a user error and it complicates things even more.

I will add that I don’t provide lights to my tropicals during the winter, they are in a bright unheated room that usually maintains a constant 65 degrees.

As far as the ID, and with this tree never flowering, my best guess is vachellia sieberiana... but I could be totally wrong.

What pisses me off more is that I was planning on repotting and depending on the root structure, going to remove a good portion of the taproot this spring. Though not fully out of the question this year, I wouldnt have thought twice had I not screwed up.

I’ll drink another, for learning the hard way.... again

 

[Hank Miller]

Because of the bark and the elliptical leaflets my guess is that it is an Acacia Galpinii. I think the tree looks ok. As long as the tree did not have to endure cold nights with temperatures below freezing it should be ok. When you repot in the spring remove as much of the tap root as possible. Regards. Hank

 

[jason biggs]

Agreed. Galpinii - your tree looks fine.
Definitely cut some of the taproot off in Spring.

 

[Dorian Fourie]

View attachment 174498 View attachment 174499 View attachment 174501 View attachment 174502 View attachment 174503 Good day fellow Bnutters,

It’s been quite while since my last post on here. Has been a hectic end and start of my year(s). My father passed the Friday before thanksgiving and my second son was born just last Tuesday. To say this season has been bittersweet, would be an understatement.

Sentiments aside, it probably goes without saying that bonsai has not been top of mind, but now that I am settling back into normal life, it is time to rectify that to some degree.

I’m throwing up some pictures of an Acacia that I bought in 2014. It’s been in this pot for two years planted entirely in turface. I was hesitant to mess with the taproot, so I did very little root work when I potted spring of ‘15.From March-September this thing is a growing machine. I will cut back very hard after the first flush of growth then just hedge cut the rest of the season. It was fully wired once (holy shit, wear gloves!) in ‘16.

This past fall I was a bit careless and left it outside for too long in the cold. It obviously went through a great deal of shock and Lost all of its leaves. However, the branches are still green?? It’s been since late October??

My questions, for more experienced Acacia growers are:

What species is this?
I still haven’t been able to nail it down...
Galpinii, Sieberiana, Burke’s, Robusta?

What are my chances of it waking up?


* current pictures and One from last growing season

Thanks in advance for any help!


It’s good to be back!

Hi Viabatron

First off my condolences on the passing of your dad. Really sorry to hear that. Also so glad to hear about the birth of your boy. I have 3 boys and I know he will bring you much joy.

I believe the tree you have is an Acacia galpinii (or now class as Senegalia galpinii - long story on why the reclassification so not for this thread) and it is also known as a monkey thorn and we still call them Acacia anyway. Here is a webpage with more information on it. http://pza.sanbi.org/senegalia-galpinii

Monkey thorns loose their leaves during the autumn / winter and can also loose during severe cold spells. If the temp warms up enough, it will shoot new leaves, otherwise it will wait for spring / summer to arrive before the buds start to break. It is very important for them to loose their leaves during winter as it gives the tree time to rest before the new growth. Here in Johannesburg South Africa, we will cut all the leaves off if it hasn't got cold enough for the tree to loose its leaves. We have found that leaving the leaves on, only makes the new growth on the next growing season very poor so off they come one month into winter.

I am sure you will have loads of new growth come spring as the temps rise. Be very careful if you plan to repot and work on the trap root. Do not take off too much at one go. Many Acacia have been lost due to too much tap root being cut off. We normally like to cut of 1/3 at a time (every 2 yrs) especially with the bigger trees that are developed. That way it gives the tree enough time to shoot out the adventitious roots over the next 2 seasons. The thorns are terrible and definitely one of the types that we try not to wire unless we absolutely have to. What you can do is take some nail clippers and cut the sharp points off. It wont do anything to the tree.

What style are you planning for with this tree? Acacia are known to usually be shaped like an umbrella (typical African style tree on the savannah)

 

[vaibatron]

Hi Viabatron

First off my condolences on the passing of your dad. Really sorry to hear that. Also so glad to hear about the birth of your boy. I have 3 boys and I know he will bring you much joy.

I believe the tree you have is an Acacia galpinii (or now class as Senegalia galpinii - long story on why the reclassification so not for this thread) and it is also known as a monkey thorn and we still call them Acacia anyway. Here is a webpage with more information on it. http://pza.sanbi.org/senegalia-galpinii

Monkey thorns loose their leaves during the autumn / winter and can also loose during severe cold spells. If the temp warms up enough, it will shoot new leaves, otherwise it will wait for spring / summer to arrive before the buds start to break. It is very important for them to loose their leaves during winter as it gives the tree time to rest before the new growth. Here in Johannesburg South Africa, we will cut all the leaves off if it hasn't got cold enough for the tree to loose its leaves. We have found that leaving the leaves on, only makes the new growth on the next growing season very poor so off they come one month into winter.

I am sure you will have loads of new growth come spring as the temps rise. Be very careful if you plan to repot and work on the trap root. Do not take off too much at one go. Many Acacia have been lost due to too much tap root being cut off. We normally like to cut of 1/3 at a time (every 2 yrs) especially with the bigger trees that are developed. That way it gives the tree enough time to shoot out the adventitious roots over the next 2 seasons. The thorns are terrible and definitely one of the types that we try not to wire unless we absolutely have to. What you can do is take some nail clippers and cut the sharp points off. It wont do anything to the tree.

What style are you planning for with this tree? Acacia are known to usually be shaped like an umbrella (typical African style tree on the savannah)
View attachment 174634
View attachment 174635

Thank you for your replies.

Dorian, would love to hear the classification bit sometime! Thank you for the ID. It makes very clear sense as to why it would need a dormant period, being from a temperate zone.

As for a style for this tree, it would probably be closer to the second picture you posted. Last year I had it looking fairly tidy for about a week. Should have snapped a picture! But it soon outgrew the styling and that’s he picture that I posted.

Is there a possibility of removing more than 1/3 if there are enough feeder roots closer to the soil surface?

Also, do you bare root?

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Thank you for your replies.

Dorian, would love to hear the classification bit sometime! Thank you for the ID. It makes very clear sense as to why it would need a dormant period, being from a temperate zone.

As for a style for this tree, it would probably be closer to the second picture you posted. Last year I had it looking fairly tidy for about a week. Should have snapped a picture! But it soon outgrew the styling and that’s he picture that I posted.

Is there a possibility of removing more than 1/3 if there are enough feeder roots closer to the soil surface?

Also, do you bare root?

Only a pleasure. With regards to removing the tap root, do not go more then half if you are happy that your tree is strong enough and there are enough feeder roots. Our temperatures allow us that as soon as the first buds start breaking, we can repot them. I have always bare rooted mine but made sure that I work quickly and keep the roots damp and get it back into the soil.

I think your tree will be a very good umbrella thorn. Remember one thing if you want to perfect that style is to look at where the branches originate from. Majority of them originate very low down on the trunk. My suggestion would be to go and google 'Acacia Tree Africa' and look at the images and see what will suit your tree and your vision and move from there.

I have one tree that I have started a thread on about my Black Monkey thorn (Exactly the same growing pattern at the monkey thorn) that might be of assistance to you on how I found a picture on google that matched my vision and how I am developing it.

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/black-monkey-thorn-bonsai-4.30418/

I have another one on my bonsai Facebook page which could help you (if you are on Facebook that is).
https://www.facebook.com/pg/KirakuBonsai/photos/?tab=album&album_id=361999790647794


Please keep this thread updated as I would love to follow how it is going. Just remember that the tree does suffer from branch die back if cut too close to a bud. Always leave a stump above the bud and let that die back slowly and then cut it back. It is also a great way to get the ramification going.

 

[Starfox]

Dorian, would love to hear the classification bit sometime!

Here you go, there is a good link in there that describes it. Basically Aussies annoying Africans. lol

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/acacia-nomenclature.26360/#post-426762

 

[vaibatron]

Only a pleasure. With regards to removing the tap root, do not go more then half if you are happy that your tree is strong enough and there are enough feeder roots. Our temperatures allow us that as soon as the first buds start breaking, we can repot them. I have always bare rooted mine but made sure that I work quickly and keep the roots damp and get it back into the soil.

I think your tree will be a very good umbrella thorn. Remember one thing if you want to perfect that style is to look at where the branches originate from. Majority of them originate very low down on the trunk. My suggestion would be to go and google 'Acacia Tree Africa' and look at the images and see what will suit your tree and your vision and move from there.

I have one tree that I have started a thread on about my Black Monkey thorn (Exactly the same growing pattern at the monkey thorn) that might be of assistance to you on how I found a picture on google that matched my vision and how I am developing it.

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/black-monkey-thorn-bonsai-4.30418/

I have another one on my bonsai Facebook page which could help you (if you are on Facebook that is).
https://www.facebook.com/pg/KirakuBonsai/photos/?tab=album&album_id=361999790647794
View attachment 174645

Please keep this thread updated as I would love to follow how it is going. Just remember that the tree does suffer from branch die back if cut too close to a bud. Always leave a stump above the bud and let that die back slowly and then cut it back. It is also a great way to get the ramification going.
View attachment 174646

Definitely with you on the dieback issue, they basically die back to next node most of the time for me.

And I will most certainly be updating this thread periodically. Probably as soon as bud break or repot.

It’s strange, my tree already an awesome branch structure and placement for a deciduous style tree. I’m not sure if I’d be willing to part with the first branch, but we will see.

Thanks for all your help! Unfortunately there isn’t much literature on Acacia bonsai. Maybe something somebody needs to remedy!

 

[vaibatron]

Dorian, one last question for now.

With respect to dieback, is it safe to prune back during this time?

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Dorian, one last question for now.

With respect to dieback, is it safe to prune back during this time?

I would not do any cutting back on it now. Leave it till the first buds start to break and then cut back.

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Unfortunately there isn’t much literature on Acacia bonsai. Maybe something somebody needs to remedy!

You are going to have to search the South African sites for info on this. Will try and find a few for you and post them

https://www.bonsaitree.co.za/blogs/tree-talk/113203782-an-acacia-bonsai-gets-a-radical-makeover

http://lennardsbonsaibeginnings.blogspot.co.za/2012/06/acacia-burkeiblack-monkey-thorn.html?m=1

Will see if I can find more for you