acer advise is needed

nabil

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Today went to nursery.

Found two Acers

This is the first tree

Two varieties one with original one branch (green) and the main is grafted (red)

What kind of acer is this?
Is it going to be good for bonsai?
 

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barrosinc

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probably an acer palmatum atropurpureum grafted on a regular acer palmatum.
I think something must be done, airlayer the atropurpureum or chop of the regular palmatum (which I think was the original idea of the grafting process, create a atropurpureum of regular palmatum root stock and they didn't chop it off).
 

nabil

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the second tree

The second tree has bigger trunk more expensive and also grafted.
 

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nabil

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questions

1- will maple bud back on trunk chop?
2- what kind of acer are those trees?
Are they Japanese maple?

Am planning to airlayer thr green branch and keep the red. As it is not natural to have two species on same tree.

Are they easy to work with? And bud back?
What about root pruning?
Thanks alot for your advise.
Note the nice nibari and thick trunk. They claim they are over 15 years old
 

barrosinc

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1- will maple bud back on trunk chop?
2- what kind of acer are those trees?
Are they Japanese maple?

Am planning to airlayer thr green branch and keep the red. As it is not natural to have two species on same tree.

Are they easy to work with? And bud back?
What about root pruning?
Thanks alot for your advise.
Note the nice nibari and thick trunk. They claim they are over 15 years old

acer palmatum is japanese maple.
Basically regular japanese maple with a red leaf japanese maple graft.
 

lordy

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I would cut off the trunk on the LEFT at the graft union (or where it comes off the right-side trunk). THis would accomplish two things: get rid of the unsightly graft union, and 2) leave you with a nicer trunk with movement and no graft.
 

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Si Nguyen

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Nabil, these 2 trees are only good as garden trees. They would look very pretty in a large pot on your patio. Every garden should have a red maple. So if you don't have a red Japanese maple, then one of these would be good for you. It is good because you will learn how to take care of it and learn to enjoy and appreciate it for what it is as a natural tree. It does not have to be a bonsai for it to be beautiful. It is also good for you to use it later to take cuttings or layerings from and to collect seeds from.

These 2 trees are not good to chop down for bonsai training. The graft sites are very ugly on both trees. You will never be able to correct that ugly graft site. I would recommend that you don't waste your time trying to train these trees into bonsai. You could get a nicer bonsai in ten years if you buy one of these trees, grow it out in the ground as a garden tree, collect the seeds, then grow the seeds into a bonsai. Or you could just buy some seeds or small seedlings and start bonsai from there. Developing a Japanese maple bonsai (and most other deciduous trees) is better and faster when started from small seedlings and grow up rather than started as a big tree to chop down.

Good luck!
 

thumblessprimate1

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I don't like the second maple for sure. The graft union is obvious. As for the first maple, the two photos that show the base are not good enough to show whther or not there exists a graft union; the leaves are partially blocking where I think the union is. Go for a more horizonal level shot of the maple.
 

Eric Group

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Nabil, these 2 trees are only good as garden trees. They would look very pretty in a large pot on your patio. Every garden should have a red maple. So if you don't have a red Japanese maple, then one of these would be good for you. It is good because you will learn how to take care of it and learn to enjoy and appreciate it for what it is as a natural tree. It does not have to be a bonsai for it to be beautiful. It is also good for you to use it later to take cuttings or layerings from and to collect seeds from.

These 2 trees are not good to chop down for bonsai training. The graft sites are very ugly on both trees. You will never be able to correct that ugly graft site. I would recommend that you don't waste your time trying to train these trees into bonsai. You could get a nicer bonsai in ten years if you buy one of these trees, grow it out in the ground as a garden tree, collect the seeds, then grow the seeds into a bonsai. Or you could just buy some seeds or small seedlings and start bonsai from there. Developing a Japanese maple bonsai (and most other deciduous trees) is better and faster when started from small seedlings and grow up rather than started as a big tree to chop down.

Good luck!

Solid advice from someone who knows their stuff!

I recommend taking air layers and cuttings and using those to create a whole slew of nice trees! That is exactly how I started with a tiny little whip of a Japanese maple about 12-15 years ago. I now have a big nice tree growing I front of one of my houses and numerous Maples that were taken as cuttings layers... Some still in my garden, some given away as gifts, some being trained as Bonsai. You learn a LOT about a tree by propagating it. This would be a great way to learn on what is basically FREE stock- if you look at the money spent on this tree as an investment in a nice landscape tree, then anything you get from it as cuttings or layers is virtually free...
 

nabil

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But based of what I've read. That reb cultivar not root well. So cutting is useless?
 

gergwebber

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Solid advice from someone who knows their stuff!

I recommend taking air layers and cuttings and using those to create a whole slew of nice trees! if you look at the money spent on this tree as an investment in a nice landscape tree, then anything you get from it as cuttings or layers is virtually free...

The other great side of this is that a large patio tree will need at least two major pruning sessions a year, providing great insight into branch architecture and pruning response of maples. Repetition is the key to getting good at pruning, and with a 6' tree, you get to make twenty times the cuts you would on a six inch tree.

But you could still chop this one anyway. Air layers and ground layers are options too.
 

Si Nguyen

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But based of what I've read. That reb cultivar not root well. So cutting is useless?

The red Japanese maples do not root easily. They have a weak root system. That's why most of them are grafted onto green maple root stocks, in order to grow faster so they can be sold faster to make money faster. Cuttings are still doable though. The success rate may be very low on the cuttings, too low to be profitable as a business, but still acceptable for your own use. But the stock tree has to be strong and healthy first before you can take cuttings. Get a tree, learn how to take good care of it, get it really strong and healthy for 2-3 years at least, then use it as stock to propagate from. Only after you have learned how to grow a tree well, would you be able to learn how to make bonsai from it.

A faster and cheaper option is to simply buy a finished bonsai and take lessons to learn how to care for it and enjoy it. I don't know how old you are, but this is the best route for most people. For most people, it is better to have a clean beautiful backyard so the whole family can enjoy , and with just a few finished bonsai in a corner for yourself to enjoy the peace with.
 
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