Acer P leaves

[BobbyLane]

i can usually tell when a tree top dressed in chopped spagnum needs watering, the spag tends to be a lighter colour, even a little dry to the touch. dark green spag moss is an indicator of too much water. in between tells me the soil is moist and just right.
i top dress with chopped spag on most repotted or heavily root pruned trees, i find the moist/humid environment helps roots to establish quicker, i also feel that as the water in the moss evaporates it provides humidity around the leaves.

 

[Rob_phillips]

I think @LanceMac10 is asking you if you keep the tree on the concrete floor directly.
Or if you keep it possibly on a stand or just raised where air can circulate the pot

 

[ConorDash]

I think @LanceMac10 is asking you if you keep the tree on the concrete floor directly.
Or if you keep it possibly on a stand or just raised where air can circulate the pot

@LanceMac10
Ah rereading your comment, I get it now lol, thank you Rob.
It's in a bow with shallow feet but not off the ground enough so it has 3 individual feet under the pot, which raises it a good 1"+ off the ground, plenty of air flow and drainage room. Currently it is down lower in the garden, away from the worst of the wind, but it's usually place is slightly higher with the rest of the trees. Both positions get it the same sort of sun, just one is more windy than the other.

 

[ConorDash]

Only put sphagnum where you want it to be damp. This is were new roots must come. The rest you leave open so you can judge watering. It is correct you have to monitor watering. Sphagnum will keep the medium under it more moist. Not wet, because the excess moisture drains away. Never seen rotted roots under sphagnum, sometime small roots grow up in the moss.

Ok that's good to know thank you. Plus your comment too, @BobbyLane . The note about the moisture of the moss, providing extra humidity to the tree above is a good point!
It seems like I wouldn't necessarily need to use moss on this maple then. It's not experiencing any watering issues that I'm aware of yet. Although it was repotted this spring a perhaps moss for the purchase of aiding root growth and strength. I may do a ring 1-2" thick around the outside of the pot, going in towards the tree. Allowing me area of uncovered substrate for judging watering needs, plus the moss to aid in root growth as they spread out from the tree.

 

[ConorDash]

Still normal and natural, right? Lol.



Bit of weeping going on but I would think that's the very warm weather we have been having. Ironically, I would have bet putting moss on top would have kept moisture better during this heat and probably helped with that weeping..

 

[ConorDash]

Still normal and natural, right? Lol.

View attachment 149302 View attachment 149303 View attachment 149304 View attachment 149305

Bit of weeping going on but I would think that's the very warm weather we have been having. Ironically, I would have bet putting moss on top would have kept moisture better during this heat and probably helped with that weeping..

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

Tree should not "weep" ever, or you will have damage. There is a problem with watering, medium or location. Seen the situation last year and returning to this situation it is not unlikely there is an underlying fungal issue? How far is this tree standing above the soil, can you take a picture of its location?

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

http://www.missouribotanicalgarden..../pests-and-problems/environmental/scorch.aspx
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=591

Still believe in leaf scorch.

 

[BobbyLane]

sometimes that 'weep' in the heat of summer, just indicates the tree needs a good soak. had a hornbeam that had a little weep and a hawthorn. moved them to a shadier spot and gave them a good long soak. next day all the shoots were erect again. they are back in the sunnier spots, but received more water and doing fine. this is nothing to worry about, if the weep goes on for more than a day, then you have a problem. then you should start checking under the soil for any grubs for starters.

 

[ConorDash]

Tree should not "weep" ever, or you will have damage. There is a problem with watering, medium or location. Seen the situation last year and returning to this situation it is not unlikely there is an underlying fungal issue? How far is this tree standing above the soil, can you take a picture of its location?

Thank you for the link, was a good read. It does seem like scorch and yet last year when this issue occurred (unconfirmed if exact same issue or cause), many people had their say and it was decided it wasn't scorch.
When I repotted this spring, it was thought the unknown, very water retentive soil was to blame. The top layer of soil was different which meant I watered it differently, potentially too much.
It's now in 100% inorganic DE cat litter. A proven substrate and used and recommended by people. I've already come to the conclusion that my mix will change next time round but maybe this substrate is not organic enough and the maple really needs some organic matter?
I've been fertilising well, it gets miracle grow balanced liquid fert + seaweed extract. Also has organic pellets on it, just topped that up as it run out, this week.

When you say standing above the soil? You mean overall height?
Here's some pics from the repotting, shows the base clearly (its root system was all good and no signs of fungal issue):



Thanks for the continued support Dirk. Appreciate it. It's just been one on going issue with this maple and it's leaves...

 

[ConorDash]

sometimes that 'weep' in the heat of summer, just indicates the tree needs a good soak. had a hornbeam that had a little weep and a hawthorn. moved them to a shadier spot and gave them a good long soak. next day all the shoots were erect again. they are back in the sunnier spots, but received more water and doing fine. this is nothing to worry about, if the weep goes on for more than a day, then you have a problem. then you should start checking under the soil for any grubs for starters.

I'll look very intently today mate. Have a delicate root around the substrate, check its upper trunk for marks, anything basically.
It was a healthy root ball, you saw it and was freshly repotted early spring before bud break, during bud extension. It should be all good and healthy...

 

[Chris Koehler]

Any reason why you didn't secure it with wire at soil level?

 

[BobbyLane]

I'll look very intently today mate. Have a delicate root around the substrate, check its upper trunk for marks, anything basically.
It was a healthy root ball, you saw it and was freshly repotted early spring before bud break, during bud extension. It should be all good and healthy...

sure, probably likely it just needed a good drenching. slim chance of any grubs in pure cat litter.

 

[ConorDash]

Any reason why you didn't secure it with wire at soil level?

You mean instead of where the wire is placed now?
TBH it was wired at that place when I bought it from Graham Potter Kaizen, so I did the same on repotting. The other legs of its nebari which there are, are quite smooth and I'm not sure the wire would have secured to them.
Why do you ask?

sure, probably likely it just needed a good drenching. slim chance of any grubs in pure cat litter.

Yeah I forgot that insects find that inorganic stuff very inhospitable, so that's also good for me.
Harry Harrington has used simply this mix on occasion, dunno if he still does, so I don't feel like it was a big mistake. Just as I've learnt more, I think other parts would have been beneficial now and also different species like different levels of acidity and organic, etc.

 

[BobbyLane]

when securing trees into pots, if you want to protect roots, you can use bits of inner tube(rubber) or mesh

20170418_151603 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
20170325_151147 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

 

[ConorDash]

when securing trees into pots, if you want to protect roots, you can use bits of inner tube(rubber) or mesh

20170418_151603 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
20170325_151147 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

Good tip. In the occasion of my maple it wasn't needed, I didn't do it mega tight. It had a good root ball for stability and the wire is spread over a large area not small and tight.
I like the idea of the tiny mesh screens as covers for wiring down trees.

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

I have no experience at all with DE. I only use akadama for maples. On a lot of the photo's i do see concrete, i have no insight in how much of it or the sun position, or ... While this is convenient, it creates dry conditions and radiates heat. Location is everything for a tree. When a tree is unhappy, relocating it 3 or 4 meters will alter the condition and might do the trick. Concrete is not optimal for trees naturally growing in damp often semi-shaded places. This tree grew up in greenhouse surrounded with lots of plants and thus humidity (came from a nursery if i remember right). Go sit next to the tree for 30 minutes in the heat of summer. When its not comfortable, it might be to hot for a maple.

 

[ConorDash]

Ah ok, I understand.. that's interesting. I've never thought of the concrete acting in that way before. Pretty much all of my garden is slabs and concrete, so unless I put some trees in the flower beds (if there's space) there's not a whole lot I can do to remedy that. But I certainly understand. A few of my trees are in clay pots, sitting directly on concrete so they must be getting very hot. I do have a lot of scrap wood for burning, I could use some planks to take them off.

In terms of this maple though, it is about 2" off the ground, with 2" of air underneath due to the feet it's on so I would think this would help greatly in dissipating that heat?
Very good point, thank you.

 

[Rob_phillips]

Ah ok, I understand.. that's interesting. I've never thought of the concrete acting in that way before. Pretty much all of my garden is slabs and concrete, so unless I put some trees in the flower beds (if there's space) there's not a whole lot I can do to remedy that. But I certainly understand. A few of my trees are in clay pots, sitting directly on concrete so they must be getting very hot. I do have a lot of scrap wood for burning, I could use some planks to take them off.

In terms of this maple though, it is about 2" off the ground, with 2" of air underneath due to the feet it's on so I would think this would help greatly in dissipating that heat?
Very good point, thank you.

Ideally you need to raise them off the concrete.
Build a bench buddy atleast a foot off the floor

 

[ConorDash]

Ideally you need to raise them off the concrete.
Build a bench buddy atleast a foot off the floor

Yeah I'd love to build a bench. Just feel like I'd need to build it myself and I'm not as good at DIY as I thought I was, or should be. Also living at home and my mum may have an issue with a big bench in the garden lol, although it'd really fit in at the back of my garden, dappled shade under 2 large pyracantha.. maybe I'll have to get some sort of make shift fix for now, to raise them up. As I said, plenty of planks of scrap wood, like fence panel planks, short.
I have a thermometer that I need to put next to my bonsai, on the ground with them to see what the temp is like, close to them. I'll have to do that, see what it says.