Rivian

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Hello everyone,
the edges of the new shoots of my Sangokaku, Bi-Hoo and Deshojo japanese maples are turning black and I dont know why. I dont think they will mature properly, if I do nothing theyll probably just die. Maybe it looks like Im overreacting to you, but I just had to burn my largest JM because it was heavily diseased, though I never figured out what it was, perhaps multiple issues.
This is my first year with JM and I want to figure this out quickly so I dont spread diseases further and they can be fully healthy next year. I dont want to just get rid of the sick shoots, I guess Im looking for a fitting fungicide
 

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parhamr

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This is a pretty common fungal infection that folks see during warmer weather. I’m not sure of its name. I don’t think this really spreads or gets worse, when I’ve seen it.

It tends to clear up with a systemic and it can be safeguarded with twice-yearly sprays of a prophylactic knock-down of the fungal spores. Thiomyl, Cleary’s 3336, and Mancozeb all tend to treat this infection well — read the label instructions for ornamental application.

Sulfur- and copper-based antifungal sprays are useful to kill active fungal spores.
 

HorseloverFat

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This is a pretty common fungal infection that folks see during warmer weather. I’m not sure of its name. I don’t think this really spreads or gets worse, when I’ve seen it.

It tends to clear up with a systemic and it can be safeguarded with twice-yearly sprays of a prophylactic knock-down of the fungal spores. Thiomyl, Cleary’s 3336, and Mancozeb all tend to treat this infection well — read the label instructions for ornamental application.

Sulfur- and copper-based antifungal sprays are useful to kill active fungal spores.

Dang.. you covered it!

......yeah! ...what HE said!

🤣🤣
 

sorce

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Chem-Free puts the Pre in vention.

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce
 

Rivian

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Of the chemicals he mentioned I only have Mancozeb, will use that tomorrow. Already used 2 other fungicides but better safe than sorry. And no, its not sun scorch, the coloration is more like burned cheese than dried up leaves.
 

PA_Penjing

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Those leaves look exactly like mine. I used to worry that it was fungal (and it might be) but I found that if I moved those trees to the shade it miraculously got better. Certainly possible that my curly black leaves are heat damage and yours are fungal damage but wanted to share my experience. If the leaves ever get really bad looking I do remove them for 2 reasons. 1, If it is fungal I don't want that stuff floating around and 2, it's just unsightly. So trimming it off encourages new healthy growth once I have shaded the tree
 

Deep Sea Diver

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Cleary’s 3336 just keeps coming up and can’t be denied.
As a former Chemical Hygiene Officer and trainer, if you use this product, don’t treat it lightly and be prepared to severely damage all the biota in your soil.... and don’t forget to take a shower and wash all of you clothes and PPE.
Here’s the human precautions from their SDS:
DSD sends

PRECAUTIONARY STATEMENTS HAZARDS TO HUMANS AND DOMESTIC ANIMALS
CAUTION: Harmful if absorbed through skin. Harmful if inhaled. Avoid contact with eyes, skin, or clothing. Avoid breathing spray mist. PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE)
Handlers mixing, loading and applying the product as a dip must wear:
• Coveralls over long-sleeved shirt and long pants • Waterproof gloves
• Chemical-resistant footwear plus socks
• Chemical-resistant apron.
All other mixers and loaders and applicators must wear: • Long sleeved shirt and long pants
• Shoes plus socks
• Waterproof gloves
• Chemical-resistant apron for mixers, loaders and other handlers exposed to concentrate.

Discard clothing and other absorbent materials that have been drenched or heavily contaminated with this product’s concentrate.

Do not reuse them. Follow manufacturer's instructions for cleaning/maintaining PPE. If no such instructions for washables exist, use detergent and hot water. Keep and wash PPE separately from other laundry.
ENVIRONMENTAL HAZARDS
Do not apply directly to water, or areas where surface water is present, or to intertidal areas below the mean high water mark. Runoff from treated areas may be hazardous to aquatic organisms in neighboring areas. Do not contaminate water when disposing of equipment washwater or rinsate.
 

Deep Sea Diver

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Of the chemicals he mentioned I only have Mancozeb, will use that tomorrow. Already used 2 other fungicides but better safe than sorry. And no, its not sun scorch, the coloration is more like burned cheese than dried up leaves.
Also, here’s the SDS for Mancozeb. The warning label of (!) is not a good thing. Be careful and be prepared to rebuild your soil biota. At least it appears to not be a systemic.
Cheers and be safe!
DSD sends
Mancozeb
GHS-US labeling
: CHEMTREC - 1 (800) 424-9300 and/or 1 (703) 527-3887
SECTION 2: Hazards identification
2.1. Classification of the substance or mixture
Hazard pictograms (GHS-US) : ( ! )
Signal word (GHS-US). WARNING!
Hazard statements (GHS-US) Precautionary statements (GHS-US)
2.3. Other hazards
No additional information available
2.4. Unknown acute toxicity (GHS-US)
No data available
SECTION 3: Composition/information on ingredients
GHS07 : Warning
: H317 - May cause an allergic skin reaction
: P261 - Avoid breathing mist
P272 - Contaminated work clothing should not be allowed out of the workplace P280 - Wear protective gloves and eye protection
P302+P352 - IF ON SKIN: Wash with plenty of soap and water
P321 - Specific treatment (see first aid on this label)
P333+P313 - If skin irritation or rash occurs: Get medical advice/attention P362+P364 - Take off contaminated clothing and wash it before reuse
P501 - Dispose of contents/container to in accordance with local/national regulations
 

Deep Sea Diver

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Hi All,

I’m so very sorry to clog up this thread, but I know that I’ll sooner or later be asked what fungI spray could I use then.... luckily in the past years there are several targeted biofungicides on the market.
The one I use is called Serenade.

Coincidentally it was just mentioned on Peter Warren’s soil science YouTube earlier in the week.

Ok, I’m finally out of here!
Happy Friday!
DSD sends
 

Firstflush

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Where are you located? If anywhere hot, 2-4 hrs of morning sun max or use as an understory planting with filtered sun/shade 24/7.
 

Rivian

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Where are you located? If anywhere hot, 2-4 hrs of morning sun max or use as an understory planting with filtered sun/shade 24/7.
Germany. I grow them in full sun. Havent seen any issues with that, Deshojo airlayer has some drought damage but thats because I separated it with too few roots.
 

leatherback

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Where are you located? If anywhere hot, 2-4 hrs of morning sun max or use as an understory planting with filtered sun/shade 24/7.
You sure its not just sun-scorch?!! Jap Maples like semi shade

I think this is one of these myths that need a serious debunking. A well-watered palmatum LOVES the sun.

Main problems occur when the roots have trouble (Too wet, too dry) or with dry winds. The latter can also cause this ruffled look. And of course, the fungal part too.
Considering the weather the last weeks I would consider fungal. I know I have seen an outbreak of all sorts of fungal issues, mostly mildew, with the increase in humidity & the dewy mornings I have had the last 2-3 weeks.
 

james

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I routinely have this problem on maple and trident, which I believe is fungal. Less so, as I have been more attentive recently. Just like your pictures, it is seen on new growth. Leaves brown at edges and deform.

What I do, is cut out sick leaves, ones that are deformed with brown edges, throw them away. Then spray with antifungal. Leave all green buds, cut out black buds. You just want to get the fungal load down on the tree, then spray to treat what is left and limit new disease on future new growth. I do the above a couple times a year.

Consider a dormant spray in fall/winter. Get all leaves off tree and soil, then spray down. Helps to limit problem in spring of following year.
 
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be prepared to severely damage all the biota in your soil....

PRECAUTIONARY STATEMENTS HAZARDS TO HUMANS AND DOMESTIC ANIMALS
CAUTION: Harmful if absorbed through skin. Harmful if inhaled. Avoid contact with eyes, skin, or clothing. Avoid breathing spray mist. PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (PPE)
Handlers mixing, loading and applying the product as a (DIP) must wear:

Notice they state “dip” as in mass use. For the most part though there are a few, people here are not running a nursery and will only be treating a few small potted bonsai. I think you are overreacting to a step you have never taken in your garden. If you have severe fungal issues each year outside your control, fungicide “spraying” in the fall can give you a reset on a lost battle.

I don’t use products in my yard outside of directions. Not everyone has neighbors that take care of their property and some members have heirloom bonsai they will be dammed to loose.

If one is using a fungicide, it stands to reason one would be killing most if not all mycorrhizal fungi. It shouldn’t be used lightly but if your loosing a plant worth hundreds or thousands to a fungi “Cleary’s 3336 just keeps coming up and can’t be denied.”
Fortunately for me it can be dug out of nearby shallow root beds like rhododendron drip lines or purchased.

If anyone here has ever used Cleary’s 3336 or any fungicide as a dip for your bonsai please tell me why so I can be prepared for that.
 

Deep Sea Diver

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Notice they state “dip” as in mass use. For the most part though there are a few, people here are not running a nursery and will only be treating a few small potted bonsai. I think you are overreacting to a step you have never taken in your garden. If you have severe fungal issues each year outside your control, fungicide “spraying” in the fall can give you a reset on a lost battle.

I don’t use products in my yard outside of directions. Not everyone has neighbors that take care of their property and some members have heirloom bonsai they will be dammed to loose.

If one is using a fungicide, it stands to reason one would be killing most if not all mycorrhizal fungi. It shouldn’t be used lightly but if your loosing a plant worth hundreds or thousands to a fungi “Cleary’s 3336 just keeps coming up and can’t be denied.”
Fortunately for me it can be dug out of nearby shallow root beds like rhododendron drip lines or purchased.

If anyone here has ever used Cleary’s 3336 or any fungicide as a dip for your bonsai please tell me why so I can be prepared for that.

I actually have had experience with root rot, and wrote it in one of my threads, but’s that’s beside the point.

I guess I could ask how many years have you been a Chemical Hygiene Officer and your qualifications too, but that would not be purposeful either.

Concentration is always key, except for those susceptible, in particular these are human specific warnings. Using as a random spray, rather than a dip, if that’s what you choose to do, is a sure fire way to affect a larger area than intended, unless the affected bonsai are specifically in isolation.

Also the ‘tests’ aren’t done with any other chemicals to measure the synergistic effects with multiple chemicals present on you or on your bonsai. ...

These studies are not published for all the critters in your microbiome. If it kills one fungi, it will kill them all... as our scientists aren’t at that state of the art yet... maybe in 20-30 years.

Anyways, the general thoughts are directed at the health of your bonsais microbiome, rather than your personal health. As far as personal health goes, there is a saying, adapted from divers that may apply

There are old people that use hazardous chemicals and there are bold people who use hazardous chemicals, but there aren’t any old, bold ones.

In any event, please use your PPE properly if you use these chemicals and only use them carefully for affected trees. Its your option, though, I’m just providing information.

Please stay healthy
DSD sends
 

Rivian

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I actually have had experience with root rot, and wrote it in one of my threads, but’s that’s beside the point.

I guess I could ask how many years have you been a Chemical Hygiene Officer and your qualifications too, but that would not be purposeful either.

Concentration is always key, except for those susceptible, in particular these are human specific warnings. Using as a random spray, rather than a dip, if that’s what you choose to do, is a sure fire way to affect a larger area than intended, unless the affected bonsai are specifically in isolation.

Also the ‘tests’ aren’t done with any other chemicals to measure the synergistic effects with multiple chemicals present on you or on your bonsai. ...

These studies are not published for all the critters in your microbiome. If it kills one fungi, it will kill them all... as our scientists aren’t at that state of the art yet... maybe in 20-30 years.

Anyways, the general thoughts are directed at the health of your bonsais microbiome, rather than your personal health. As far as personal health goes, there is a saying, adapted from divers that may apply

There are old people that use hazardous chemicals and there are bold people who use hazardous chemicals, but there aren’t any old, bold ones.

In any event, please use your PPE properly if you use these chemicals and only use them carefully for affected trees. Its your option, though, I’m just providing information.

Please stay healthy
DSD sends
How do Round-up and Karate Zeon compare to Mancozeb? (i know theyre not fungicides, just mean danger-wise)
 

Deep Sea Diver

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How do Round-up and Karate Zeon compare to Mancozeb? (i know theyre not fungicides, just mean danger-wise)


Ok, this is a one time freebie as I've been pressed for time of late.

All are to be used with explicitly exhibited purpose and all have definite human and environmental hazards.

btw: Just curious. Why ever would you even consider using Round Up, especially in the EU? We are trying to get rid of that stuff here, but Monsanto, Bayer, Scotts etc are putting up a big fight personally and through intermediaries.

Here's the SDS info for you to do further reading. Since you're from the EU, I looked for your reports. Danger wise hmm... read sections esp 11,12... 15.1
Its really hard to compare things that aren't good for living things in the environment as being better or worse...

cheers
DSD sends
 

Rivian

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btw: Just curious. Why ever would you even consider using Round Up, especially in the EU? We are trying to get rid of that stuff here, but Monsanto, Bayer, Scotts etc are putting up a big fight personally and through intermediaries.
Because it kills weeds and the chemical alternatives are even worse. Mechanical removal is not feasible in many situations. I wrote a small paper about it as an exercise for Uni a while back. Im guessing when you wrote "WE are trying to get rid of that stuff here", you were talking about people who do not work in the relevant industries like agriculture and gardening.
 
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