Acer palmatum dissectum viridis...

Forsoothe!

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I stopped by my old next-door neighbor's house today and saw this tree that I planted maybe in the mid-'90's...
20201017_162000.jpg
I'm only familiar with these as your run-of-the-mill weeping green cutleaf Japanese Maple. If I had known this was going to grow like this I would have taken it with me when I moved in '08. I have seen some big old ones maybe 7 or 8 feet tall but still weeping and always 2 or 3 times as wide as tall. This one is 15 feet tall and decidedly upright. Is this one of a kind?
20201017_162024.jpg
 

Forsoothe!

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Too big now, but lots hanging over the fence and just maybe someone will air layer a twig or two next spring...;)
 

Mapleminx

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They can reach over 4.5meters tall over time if left to grow free of interference. I rarely get to see one that large!! You probably have the largest one I have seen 😂😂

I have a neighbor who has one in their front garden but theirs is only about 80cm high and around 2meters wide with a nice chunky twisty weepy trunk (if they ever decide to dig that up I want it as a low ornamental!).
 

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Too big now, but lots hanging over the fence and just maybe someone will air layer a twig or two next spring...;)
Hi,
Just to throw another idea in the mix. I wonder if this is Seiryu, as it is an upright green dissectum. I can’t really see much of a weeping form. I might be totally wrong but it seemed like you might have unsure of the cultivar. And Seiryu roots ok by cutting so air layer could work.
My 2 cents, Charles
 

Shibui

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I also suspect there has been a mis-labelling or some other issue. Mistakes in ID are quite common in the trade and we often see uninformed growers selling seedlings under a cultivar name. Most of you already know that every seedling will have different characteristics which could include upright growth and taller form so if this was seed grown it cannot be Dissectum viridis.
Leaves look too big and too open for Seryu but it could also be that the original graft died (assuming it was grafted) and this is the root stock growing into its normal form and it just happens to have deeply divided leaves.
 

Mapleminx

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I also suspect there has been a mis-labelling or some other issue. Mistakes in ID are quite common in the trade and we often see uninformed growers selling seedlings under a cultivar name. Most of you already know that every seedling will have different characteristics which could include upright growth and taller form so if this was seed grown it cannot be Dissectum viridis.
Leaves look too big and too open for Seryu but it could also be that the original graft died (assuming it was grafted) and this is the root stock growing into its normal form and it just happens to have deeply divided leaves.
Could be a slight hybridization of viridis and something else, I wouldn’t be surprised as we all know what a pot luck seeds can be but I also once saw a grafted tree (not a JM) that had one high branch that was completely different to the rest of the tree. It looked totally odd but the only explanation given by its owner was the odd branch was the graft species.
I’ve seen a few viridis that appear more upright than others without explanation.

As for hybrids, I have a red dragon hybrid, I also have a red dragon and although the 2 of them look similar at certain times depending on the seasons, there are definitely some differences when you get close up or hit certain seasons 😂
 

Shibui

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I also once saw a grafted tree (not a JM) that had one high branch that was completely different to the rest of the tree. It looked totally odd but the only explanation given by its owner was the odd branch was the graft species.
This is quite common with grafted weeping trees. If the rootstock sprouts that shoot will grow upright and grow faster than the grafted weeping top. It will often overwhelm the grafted part if allowed to grow. To those who don't understand it appears the tree has gradually changed form.
As for hybrids, I have a red dragon hybrid, I also have a red dragon and although the 2 of them look similar at certain times depending on the seasons, there are definitely some differences when you get close up or hit certain seasons 😂
Absolutely correct. Every seedling has some differences from the parent. Even if the seed was selfed (parent was both mother and father - many plants can do that) the recombination of genes caused by sexual reproduction means the new seedling will have some differences. They may may be easy to see like leaf color, shorter intenodes or weeping habit. The differences may be subtle like disease resistance or susceptibility, hardness of wood or may not show up for many years eg height or longevity but there will be differences so seedlings cannot ever be given the name of the parent if the parent was a cultivar.
 

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All of you could be right, or wrong, I don't really remember what the variety is and I'm calling it 'Viridis' as a default ID. As to it dying to the ground, as in everything above the graft dead and the stock being left to grow, the trunk doesn't look like that happened. It doesn't look grafted, either. It is very fruitful and along with my old, original A.p. species sapling collected with two others from a long defunct nursery is giving my friend many seedlings of every stripe in every landscape bed. This is my original #1 tree, #2 having been cut down by the current resident, but there are now 3 of its seedlings growing in my friend's yard and also bearing seed. In 1990...
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It was wired to the porch iron roof support for the first ten years to make it follow the vertical column and then spill outward from the house over the yard. I wired it every year until I could't move it anymore. Here, in 2000...

Noll front fron sidewalk ~2000.JPG
Noll Front from Andys.JPG
...The trunk in 2002...

WNWtoEast.jpg
... And today...
20201017_160901.jpg
 

Shibui

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I don't really remember what the variety is and I'm calling it 'Viridis' as a default ID.
Why call something by a name it is not? Do you go round calling random strangers by any name you think sounds OK or give them names because they look like someone else you know?
If you are not certain of the variety name it is simply a Japanese maple with interesting leaves. Note that you can name any JM as a new variety if it is grown from seed. That's how all the existing varieties came into being.
Viridis is a weeping variety. This one is obviously not a weeping variety so applying the name is doubly wrong.
As to it dying to the ground, as in everything above the graft dead and the stock being left to grow, the trunk doesn't look like that happened.
Who said anything about dying to the ground? Weeping varieties are often grafted higher on a tall rootstock so no point looking for a graft close to the ground. If the graft had died and the rootstock sprouted and grew you would be unlikely to see the evidence after a few years let alone 25 years of growth. The new growth completely grows over any evidence.
 

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My Viridis was planted about 30 years ago. Soil is not great but plant is still over 20 feet tall. I have posted pictures of it here in the past.
 

Pitoon

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My guess would be a Seiryu variant or seedling of. Go back and put some air layers as they air layer fairly easy compared to the actual weeping variants. I did 5 air layers this year off a Seiryu, and managed to pull 4. 5th didn't send out roots, but the branch is still alive.
 

penumbra

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Mine doesn't produce much seed but I pull about 3 or 4 seedlings out a year. I have had quite a bit of leaf variation but only once found a seedling that looked identical to the parent plant. I gave that one to a good friend who bought a house this year. He has great soil so I am anxious to see how it develops.
 

Forsoothe!

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Why call something by a name it is not? Do you go round calling random strangers by any name you think sounds OK or give them names because they look like someone else you know?
If you are not certain of the variety name it is simply a Japanese maple with interesting leaves. Note that you can name any JM as a new variety if it is grown from seed. That's how all the existing varieties came into being.
Viridis is a weeping variety. This one is obviously not a weeping variety so applying the name is doubly wrong.

Who said anything about dying to the ground? Weeping varieties are often grafted higher on a tall rootstock so no point looking for a graft close to the ground. If the graft had died and the rootstock sprouted and grew you would be unlikely to see the evidence after a few years let alone 25 years of growth. The new growth completely grows over any evidence.
I freely give everything I know or can think of when I present a situation for people to mull over. I state as plainly as I can what I know or think I know, and what I'm unsure of, and what I don't know at all. The purpose is to lay everything on the table so people can pick and choose from "what is" and present their own take on what they thing is useful or un-useful. The fact that the post exists is evidence that there is a lot I don't know. Your snotty response is not helpful or welcome. If you have a naturally snotty disposition, I welcome you to go to Hell.
 

penumbra

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Flash! I was an idiot this morning when I posted. I didn't sleep well last night and wasn't thinking clearly. Not that this is an excuse because I can be an idiot when well rested too. My 20+ foot maple is not a Viridis
( though I do have one), it is a Seiryu. Thanks Pitoon.
I am not stupid I its just that sometimes I react before my mind catches up with me.
 

Pitoon

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Flash! I was an idiot this morning when I posted. I didn't sleep well last night and wasn't thinking clearly. Not that this is an excuse because I can be an idiot when well rested too. My 20+ foot maple is not a Viridis
( though I do have one), it is a Seiryu. Thanks Pitoon.
I am not stupid I its just that sometimes I react before my mind catches up with me.
I have a Viridis I bought that was pretty low (maybe 3ft or so) I've staked it up in the pot and it's probably 7-8ft tall now. I was thinking to get it to 12ft, and then start to let it branch out. I think a 12ft Viridis would look spectacular as an ornamental tree in the yard.
 

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