Acer palmatum fireglow

Brian Van Fleet

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I doubt i will be able to remove a lot of soil without cumbing the roots i will need to root bare it and probably break a few.

What are the survival chances if i do it now?

can I still layer it ?


Survival chances are low if you take most of the advice provided at this time, and even lower if you're new to this. You came asking what to do with the tree, and you have received plenty of responses to that question. All are valid responses of what you could do with your tree.

The better question is, "Should I do anything to this tree now?" The answer, if it's my tree, is no. They can live for years in poor soil, but die in weeks when you work the root system at the wrong time. Use this year to learn how this tree grows, learn how to water it (aerate the soil if necessary, and add drain holes in the bottom of the pot), slow down, and get to know the tree. There is no need to chop it down, layer it out, root prune it, or change the soil...now.

You spent a lot of money on it. Take your time. Turn it around, study it, find things you like about it and identify things you'll want to correct later. Picture what it's going to look like in 5, 10 years and what it will take to get you there. Then...when the timing is right, do the work that's appropriate for the season.
 

akhater

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Thank you Brian

I have indeed decided to wait till end of winter to bare root it, I decided it was safest.

I placed it in a cool shaded place with 2 hours of morning sun, and I won't fertilize it for now. I have cut a lot of wholes in the bottom and cut all the dead twigs and I am waiting to see how it will react.

Temps are dropping again here we had rain all day so it will wake up slowly and I will nurse it this season I'm not in a hurry

Thanks
 

rockm

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"Survival chances are low if you take most of the advice provided at this time, and even lower if you're new to this."

I don't think so, even beginners can have success in early summer repotting with maples. They're tougher than most people give them credit for.

However, the advice to wait is pretty sound, provided you can get some drainage into the soil and pot.

The conversion of the USDA zones globally is extremely confusing from the link you provided. That's the trouble with trying to convert zones specific to the U.S. to other countries, I guess. The correlating Zone 11 in the U.S. is a tropical climate. Zone 8 (US) sounds about right for you, possibly Zone 8b or even 9.
 

akhater

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I am trying to summarize all this for my newbie head :D

1. I will not repot before next winter/spring I will nurse the tree
2. It is in a shaded place only 2 to 3 hours of morning sun (is it a go or no go ?)
3. I will not fertilize it or should I fertilize it once a month ?
4. water it only when the soil is dry in surface (right or wrong ?)
5. anything else I should do for this year ?

Thank you guys for your patience
 

rockm

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1. Yes.
2. that's OK
3. A light fertilization once a month (or less) could help. Any more than that might cause problems
4. Water it when it needs it. This is the most difficult part of your job here. You need to provide constant moisture for the tree, but not so much that the soil stays wet all the time. A dry surface can be used as a rule of thumb, but it's not completely reliable (but probably reliable enough for now).

As you go along, you will learn what the tree needs. This may mean you water every day, twice a day, or not at all. It depends on the tree and local conditions during the day. A sunny warm windy day in the summer may force the tree to use a lot of water and require watering twice or even three times a day. A still humid day may not require any watering.

You can do several things to keep up with the tree's needs. Insert a wooden stick about two inches or a little more into the root mass (a chopstick will work). Use the stick like an oil dipstick on an automobile. Remove it every morning and evening, see if the end is wet or dryish. If it's dry, water. If there is moisture, don't water.

At the same time, you will learn what conditions the tree needs to be watered in.

Another way to tell if the tree needs water is to water it well, then lift the pot in your hands to feel the weight of a just-watered pot and tree. Every so often, check the chop stick and lift the pot too. You will get to understand how heavy a pot that needs to be watered is versus one that doesn't.
 

akhater

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Well I think that sets the plan for this season !

We will have a follow up on this in a few months or at least I hope...

Thanks a lot
 

akhater

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I am studying my options on whether I should repot it in autumn or next spring and I have some questions

1. Now I am controlling watering (at least trying to) but I guess that, in winter, I should protect it from rain to avoid root rot am I right ?
2. when a tree is dormant it doesn't need light right ?
3. should I put it directly in a flat pot or I should gradually put it in a smaller pot every repot ?
4. how much roots should/can I prune ? I guess I should prune as little as possible since I don't know if they are healthy or not is that correct ?
5. can I leave the top intact on the repot or should I cut it back to equilibrate the root pruning ?

Thanks
 

akhater

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Up maybe someone can help?
 

Brian Van Fleet

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I would not recommend repotting in the fall. There is a "right" time for every aspect of bonsai work, and for repotting, that is spring. There are also times you can "get away with something" and some will tell you that you it's fine, but that should really be reserved for times when the risk of NOT doing the work outweighs the risk associated with doing the work at the wrong time. 99% of the time a tree dies, it is DIRECTLY attributable to roots. Unfortunately, that's a lesson that most people have to learn for themselves...usually over and over.

You asked for articles on root pruning and maple development, here is one I've photographed over the years and shared several times here: http://www.nebaribonsai.com/Nebari_Bonsai_112109/Projects_files/Evolution of Jap Maple.pdf It needs to be updated with this spring's repotting.

Another my buddy Ron did using photographs from us repotting several of my trees: http://www.nebaribonsai.com/Nebari_Bonsai_112109/Projects_files/Repotting Presentation 012010.pdf

Finally, you were unsure about siting and feeding your tree, and someone mentioned only feeding once a month. Give the tree as much sun as it can stand, shade in the late afternoon after 2-3 PM, and FEED IT! Use organic feeds, solid such as poultry manure and liquid such as fish/kelp emulsion. Make cakes of solid or work some into the soil, and water with liquid feed weekly. Pump up your trees so they're healthy enough for you to work on next year.
 

akhater

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I can't thank you enough for the help and your patience I still have the following questions to know what to do untill next spring

1. Now I am controlling watering (at least trying to) but I guess that, in winter, I should protect it from rain to avoid root rot am I right ?
2. when a tree is dormant it doesn't need light right ?
3. should I put it directly in a flat pot or I should gradually put it in a smaller pot every repot ?
4. I guess I should prune as little as possible since I don't know if they are healthy or not is that correct ?
5. can I leave the top intact on the repot or should I cut it back to equilibrate the root pruning ?

Thanks
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Answers below...my opinion.

I can't thank you enough for the help and your patience I still have the following questions to know what to do untill next spring

1. Now I am controlling watering (at least trying to) but I guess that, in winter, I should protect it from rain to avoid root rot am I right ?
Probably. Just find a spot under an eaves, and mulch it in...assuming it's hardy in your climate, you should be fine.

2. when a tree is dormant it doesn't need light right ?
Correct for Deciduous trees.

3. should I put it directly in a flat pot or I should gradually put it in a smaller pot every repot ?
Depends. If you are satisfied with the trunk size, and it's healthy, go ahead and put it into a flat pot next year. If not, you'll want to put it in a bigger pot next year to keep it growing.

4. I guess I should prune as little as possible since I don't know if they are healthy or not is that correct ?
Correct.

5. can I leave the top intact on the repot or should I cut it back to equilibrate the root pruning ?
Either is fine, but if you are going into a shallow pot, the assumption is that you're effectively "done" developing the trunk and primary branches, and all you want to do is refine the tree. If you are doing heavy pruning on the top, do it in the middle of winter, then repot in the spring just as the buds are swelling/leaves are starting to emerge.

Thanks
 

Dr.GreenThumb

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I haven't seen this one on PB :D

Good luck with this tree !

PS: A picture maybe ?
 

akhater

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Nop it is not on PB yet, I think it will be if it makes it through the summer till next spring :p

There are a few pics on the first post and here is another one one month after I got it
 

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akhater

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Hello, I come back with some news, I am happy to say that my tree is still alive.

I had a layering done on it last year and it is now full of roots I will cut it when it starts to leaf out.

OK this sounds silly but I am still don't feel confident about re-potting it :( should I stop being silly and go for it or it could wait another year ?

Hope you guys are still around :)
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Glad to hear its still alive. Repot it as the buds are swelling and when temperatures are predictably above freezing.
Prepare a new pot.
Prepare your soil.
Remove the tree, and comb out the roots and remove all the old soil. Use a hose and high water pressure to get the last of it.
Prune back the roots by about half, remove any heavy roots growing straight down. All heavy roots need to grow outward.
Secure it into the new pot.
Thoroughly work in the new soil, ensuring no air pockets remain.
Water well, several times to was out any dust particles.

The tree looks healthy, and this is the right season...you will be fine. Lets see some photos when you done!
 

akhater

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Thank you Brian, it is good to know I'm still not alone :D

I should cut the layer when the buds are swelling also right ?

There are no more freezing temps for us this year so I need to wait for the buds now and hope i won't freak out :D
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Yes, cut the layer at the same time. Also, absolutely do not disturb the roots, just remove the bag, and keep everything intact, and pot it into a pot just slightly larger than the root ball. Next year, you can start to work on the roots. This is a maple I'm working on and shows an air layer I did in '10, and it's still in the same can now...and will be working on the roots for the first time this spring.
 

akhater

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can I repot and layer the same year ? guess not right ?

and why not touch the root of the layer ? I thought it would be just like repoting and I can wash the roots
 
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cmeg1

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Wow,neat pictorial,Bian.I suddenly want to keep an eye out for a large maple cultivar and sink it in the yard, then layer.I would have to find more winter storage room though.
 
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