Rivian

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I had some bad experience with Osakazuki and I want to avoid ordering cultivars with similar leathery leaves etc. ( I have thrown mine away so no pictures).
But since I order online I may notice too late.

So Im asking what other cultivars do you know of that are closely related to Osakazuki?
And if you want you can post your pictures of Osakazuki here too, especially if its in leaf, and share your experience with it.
 

NOZZLE HEAD

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Where I live all palmatums grow like weeds, they are a big part of the commercial nursery industry here.

The commercial growers I work with describe the cultivation differences between varieties as nuances rather than orders of magnitude.

What traits are you looking for in a tree and what problems did you have?
 

AlainK

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There are three subspecies of Acer palmatum : A. p. palmatum, A. p. amonenum, and A. p. matsumurae.

Acer palmatum ssp. amoenum is now considered by some as a distinct species, Acer amoenum.

'O-sakazuki' belongs to this group, and most of the cvs in this group tend to have larger leaves than the two other subspecies but some cultivars have much smaller leaves.

The basic differences in leaf shape between the 3 subspecies :

 

Rivian

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There are three subspecies of Acer palmatum : A. p. palmatum, A. p. amonenum, and A. p. matsumurae.

Acer palmatum ssp. amoenum is now considered by some as a distinct species, Acer amoenum.

'O-sakazuki' belongs to this group, and most of the cvs in this group tend to have larger leaves than the two other subspecies but some cultivars have much smaller leaves.

The basic differences in leaf shape between the 3 subspecies :

Can you tell me cultivars of the amoenum group?
Also, I assume they hybridize with the other subspecies all the time?
 

KiwiPlantGuy

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Hi,
I can’t remember the exact name for the book. It is by Vertrees in Japanese Maples. Such a great book and affordable 👍
Charles
 

AlainK

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Japanese Maples, Vertrees & Gregory, Timber Press ed.

Can you tell me cultivars of the amoenum group?

There are hundreds of cultivars, and yes, they can hybridize easily.

In the above-mentioned book, listed as amoenum, by alphabetical order :
'Aoba nishiki'
'Ariake nomura'
'Atropurpureum'
'Atsu gama'
etc.

There are more cvs from the other two groups, often with smaller leaves.
 
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Rivian

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OK then, Atropurpureum seems fine to me so far, so I wont bother avoiding amoenums
 

Rivian

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What do you mean exactly by "some bad experience" ? Is it because of the size of the leaves, diseases, or else ?
Large leaves, weird texture of leaves and stems, uninteresting shoot color, visible decline until death for unknown reason (in retrospect, probably fungal)
 

AlainK

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The size of the leaves of 'Atropurpureum' is about the same as 'O-sakazuki'.

If you prefer smaller leaves with a softer texture, and nicer colours at budbreak,then any in "Hime" family would please you better (Kiyo hime, Little princess, Beni hime, Chishio hime, ...)

Example :

Esveld nurseries (the Netherlands) has also an impressive collection of maples :
 

Rivian

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If you prefer smaller leaves with a softer texture, and nicer colours at budbreak,then any in "Hime" family would please you better (Kiyo hime, Little princess, Beni hime, Chishio hime, ...)
Heard dwarfs tend to let their top die, so not planning to buy those. Btw, are they "witches brooms"?
And someone recomended a maple book to me, sorry, after I just got disappointed by the "best azalea book ever" Im not going to do that kind of thing again
 

Ohmy222

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Vertrees book is the go-to. Anyone into maples has it. I know Ichiyogi and Hogyuko are almost identical except fall color but there are numerous ones. Many of the red maples are in here too. Alain K is right on the leaf classification but even that is misleading as there are dwarf amoneum cultivars. For instance, Nomura is a cultivar was sometimes used in Japan for bonsai and it is in the amoneum group. In general though the palmatum group is normally the best for bonsai. The amoneum, matsumarae, and dissectum groups tend to have larger leaf sizes, longer internodes, and petiole length. Amoneum and matsumarae groups tend to be more vigorous and grow faster too. You can read a lot online too at topiary-gardens, mr. maple, and maple ridge nurseries.
 

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