Acer Sango kaku

[TomB]

Of course this is generally regarded as a refinement technique, not something one would do to a developing tree, BUT it would be a possible solution to the problem you are facing @fredman .
Bobby, sorry for hijacking the thread, will shut up now

 

[Deleted member 21616]

@TomB @ysrgrathe although @fredman is surely already aware, it may be worth noting for others that pinching is controversial, with prominent members of this forum advising against its general use (including Walter Pall, who is quite outspoken about it). From what I understand, it is a technique that can be used to target a specific branch if necessary, but should not be applied wholesale or repeatedly to a tree year after year

Edit: @TomB we must have hit enter at the same time! i'll leave my post as is anyways

 

[ysrgrathe]

Yeah, l am not entirely sure its use is appropriate here. I would *guess* that we would only apply it to key branches that will be permanent, so as not to reduce the vigor of a tree still in development.

I think pinching is controversial mainly because it is an advanced technique that cannot be blindly applied. You cannot pinch an entire tree every year without it declining. You probably should not blindly pinch an entire tree as it's likely that some branches should be let grow to develop, use up energy that would otherwise be directed to well-ramified portions of the tree, or to maintain vigor.

One other data point. Boon teaches how to pinch, but I've yet to have a maple that needed it, so he clearly considers it a technique to be deployed in specific situations (e.g. refining a Kokufu level tree -- and then letting that tree grow out the following year to restore its health!). His more general technique is the same thing I see Walter advocating: grow and cut back. This is much safer because it does not weaken the tree.

Cutting back deciduous trees

Your bonsai book tells you to carefully pinch new growth on deciduous tree soon after it appears. This will result in short internodes and s...

walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com

 

[BobbyLane]

Of course this is generally regarded as a refinement technique, not something one would do to a developing tree, BUT it would be a possible solution to the problem you are facing @fredman .
Bobby, sorry for hijacking the thread, will shut up now

its cool mate no worries

thing is we dont know much about Fredmans trees.if theyre in the ground or in large containers, were they trunk chopped, are they heavily fed as these factors would explain long nodes. are they young saplings or established trees etc etc

 

[Paulpash]

@fredman - if you are cutting back to the first node every year then all the tree's stored energy it accumulated over the last growing season will be channeled through only a few buds. Just cut back to the final silhouette and use the excess branching as 'internode soaks'. Try and get as many buds to pop as you can and keep it in a bonsai pot so you are confining the roots. Leaf cutting can help to encourage these inner buds to develop so trim and do a partial leaf cut. The more shoots a tree has in proportion to their root mass the tighter those internodes will become. As has been said before don't fertilise til after the tree has hardened off after the first push.

 

[fredman]

if it shoots from where it was cut is that not a good thing then. thought only elms did that.
can we see some pics of the branches youre talking about? if the first node is a little long surely you can put movement into it with wiring. are these trees in pots or the ground?what youre describing isnt much different to what most trees do after a hard cut back or more so after a trunk chop.

Good idea Bobby. Although it's high winter here and they're all cut back, i'll get some photos over the weekend. That will make things easier to talk about.
They're all in smallish plastic training pots. I have wired movement into them in the past, but took it off and removed the long nodes again as that first long node aren't in balance with the rest of the tree.
Thank you very much to all that is contributing...i've been wanting to talk here about this trees for a while now.

 

[BobbyLane]

after cutting everything back, should be a lot denser in a few weeks

 

[cmeg1]

Nice to have a cultivar.Impressive!

 

[fredman]

Nice. They flare well from young to which is a bonus. I especially like the colouring on them. I took some photos of mine. Just need to sit down and do the write up.
I see you have the longish nodes to. I'll be very interested to see how you work that this season @BobbyLane
Plz keep it updated through this growing season.

 

[Johnnyd]

I really like the way these backbud!
Your photos look great. What do you use as a backdrop?

 

[BobbyLane]

Nice. They flare well from young to which is a bonus. I especially like the colouring on them. I took some photos of mine. Just need to sit down and do the write up.
I see you have the longish nodes to. I'll be very interested to see how you work that this season @BobbyLane
Plz keep it updated through this growing season.

i have longish nodes on a few of my trees though, especially my maples. as most are in early development ive been using organic granules and also feeding a heavily diluted dose of miracle gro at almost every watering. this will result in long nodes. its not an issue for me, i let them grow and cut back hard. winter is the time we see if what was done is working or not.

 

[BobbyLane]

I really like the way these backbud!
Your photos look great. What do you use as a backdrop?

Hi mate, i use a black velvet back drop. i got the idea from a photo thread on here somewhere.

 

[BobbyLane]

this katsura has long nodes in places too, thats fine im pushing them for fast growth with lots of water n fert
the zelkova even has long nodes in places. the first nodes on these trees is quite short. thats what counts really.

 

[cmeg1]

Killer Zelkova!

 

[fredman]

. its not an issue for me, i let them grow and cut back hard.

Thanks Bobby. When you say cut back hard, what exactly do you mean?
Do you cut it to a hedge and then work with the new shorter growth, or what?

 

[fredman]

Don't know why, but my pics won't load now...

 

[BobbyLane]

Thanks Bobby. When you say cut back hard, what exactly do you mean?
Do you cut it to a hedge and then work with the new shorter growth, or what?

one or two leaves in some places and 3 or 4 in others. you can kinda see this in the images of above.

 

[BobbyLane]

Thanks Bobby. When you say cut back hard, what exactly do you mean?
Do you cut it to a hedge and then work with the new shorter growth, or what?

@fredman
stumbled upon this bloke, who's in a similar climate to yours. the long extensions were cut back hard, leaving tighter, shorter nodes

 

[fredman]

Thanks Bobby. He's in Australia, with a very different climate. I do exactly what he does every year though.
I'm starting to repot now and feel a new vigor coming on for bonsai again...been kinda neglecting it the last two seasons.
I'll come back to this thread with the Sangos to update as I go.

 

[BobbyLane]

Thanks Bobby. He's in Australia, with a very different climate. I do exactly what he does every year though.
I'm starting to repot now and feel a new vigor coming on for bonsai again...been kinda neglecting it the last two seasons.
I'll come back to this thread with the Sangos to update as I go.

aha, that explains it then!

be a good idea to start your own progress thread