Advice and Opinions on New Trident Maple Purchase

[miker]

Hello everyone,

I am basically new to the Bonsai Nut forums, though I had officially signed up years ago. I have been working with trees for the past 18 years or so, with a few years off here and there. The past 5-7 years, I have essentially been trying to maintain the few trees I have, virtually all of which are pre-bonsai starter material in quality. During this most recent time, I have not really been active in learning and participating in forums, workshops, clubs or exhibitions. Just doing the basics such as repotting, trimming, daily care and rudimentary style work. One of my pre-bonsai, a live oak (Quercus virginiana) I have being training now for just under 10 years from a seedling. The first 6 years, I grew it out in the ground, pruning it each year in February just before the tree broke from dormancy. Since, it has been in a large black (~25-30 gallon) training pot, still just getting pruned once per year. This tree is just now getting to the point where I feel I can start doing some real work on it, so I will be asking for advice regarding it shortly.

I have 6 temperate tree species, that I have been applying bonsai techniques to and are anywhere from 6-15 years old. These trees spend 3-4 months in the refrigerator each year to provide proper dormancy (and as such are shohin to mame in size), since I am in the Orlando area. Additionally, I have 8 or so tropical species that I am training as bonsai, including a really nice ficus that I have been training for 15 years now (found it as a volunteer growing along a hedge in South Florida in 2001) as well as a buttonwood (Conocarpus erectus) I have had for 10 years now (I started once again becoming active in bonsai and acquiring trees in 2006), that was originally field collected from the FL Keys and features some attractive jin and shari.

Only the buttonwood and ficus would I consider bonsai, as well as possibly a Korean Hornbeam (Carpinus coreana) that is really special to me and that was also purchased in 2006. Sadly, last spring it became apparent that the whole top of this tree had died back (I think due to excessive root pruning on my part), so I am going to have to likely “start from scratch” with this tree.

Periodically, upon hearing that I keep "bonsai", friends and family will show interest and of course want to see my trees. Well, having a collection full of seedlings in pots, grow-outs in early stages of training, and just a couple that resemble “bonsai” that need work does not make me particularly keen on showing off my “collection”.

I was browsing through some finished and specimen trees for sale online recently and decided that I should have one nice tree that is at least semi-finished, has relatively few problems and ones that could be corrected with time, and that has the potential to be a nice specimen 10-30 years from now. A little instant gratification, though I certainly do not have the means to just purchase a show quality specimen. I like some of the tropical species and really appreciate some of the pine species (JBP, JWP, even mugo pine, etc.), but these tend to do poorly at best (really they just decline and die) in Central FL. My favorite category of tree to work with, however, is deciduous trees, for the seasonal variation, fall color and the beauty of the branch/twig ramification during the winter. So, I decided on a trident maple that I really like the appearance of, that generally presents as a finished bonsai as is, and that was within budget (the most I could get for what I could reasonably spend). I should be receiving the tree in the next week or two, so I am really excited!
I have posted a few photos of my new bonsai and as well as introducing myself to everyone here, I really would like to get some honest and constructive feedback on this tree, related to current strengths and weaknesses, and more importantly, help in coming up with a short/medium/long term plan for developing and improving it such that it can eventually become a nice, presentable specimen tree. I realize it has a number of issues; the first that might be glaringly evident is the styling, which is that of a pine! I know that serious enthusiasts avoid styling deciduous trees in this manner. I have decided that I like the look of the tree, this notwithstanding, though I am open to and willing to try to gradually morph it into a more realistically styled maple, if possible.

The tree also has reverse taper issues in one (possibly two) points along the trunk, and I would like to apply specific techniques (as well as allow the necessary time to pass) to correct or at least minimize this problem long term. The tree also needs major styling and other work on all the branches, including at the tree’s apex. In addition, a large portion of the top ½ of the trunk lacks taper and seems too “elongated” and out of proportion. I am not aware of any (that aren’t extremely drastic) methods to correct this, other than years and years of time to allow the trunk to thicken significantly in these areas. What I like most about this trident maple is the nebari, which although not perfect, is pretty decent (and certainly workable into being good to excellent) and is by far the best I came across in my price range (and really anywhere close to my price range). Thank you for allowing me to participate here. I plan to immediately start reading the information within and learn as much as possible. I am open to and look forward to reading any and all opinions and suggestions on my new trident maple.

 

[miker]

Additional Photos...

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Hi Mike, and welcome!

Do you have any pictures of that Ficus? Asking for a friend...

IMO, this tree could make a killer shohin. If this was my tree, I'd chop it at that branch before the long, taperless section and make that branch the new leader. I then shortened that branch bit, as well as shortened the other bottom branches to make a more compact appearance, which would create a powerful little tree.

 

[Adair M]

I'd do the cutback that Redwood Suggested. You can grow out a new apex pretty quickly on a trident.

If you want, you could airlayer off the current apex and make a twin trunk out of that, before doing the chop.

 

[MACH5]

Agreed! Very nice piece of material. This tree is a good example of having being built too quickly resulting in a top that's too long and lanky and ramification only at the ends. Thankfully this is all easily corrected as per the above.

 

[JudyB]

If you decide not to do a chop or airlayer, I would suggest some thread grafting in the long neck of the middle trunk.

 

[miker]

Ryan, thank you so much for the suggestion. I suspected that might be the best course of action, particularly since trident maples are so fast growing and robust. I appreciate your adding the edited photo to give an idea of just how excellent the outcome might be! Once I receive this tree, I will likely grow it for a season, then do the chop this next winter while it is again dormant. It will be no problem to keep this baby in the refrigerator for 4 months, I guess I chose well. I will take a picture of my root-over-rock ficus and post it this evening. What I like about this ficus so much, is that is has been trained almost completely using clip-and-grow these past 15 years, and has a perfectly tapered trunk from base to apex (since no trunk chop was ever done). I did wire a few of the branches in the 2008-2010 timeframe, and have tried to obtain more successful areal roots, but I've noticed it takes just the right outside weather conditions for weeks on end to get the roots to even initiate downward from lower branches and the conditions must be sustained for the roots to grow to the soil line and root, rather than drying out.

Adair, if I decide to do the air layer, I could get it started in the next couple months and hopefully do the separation in the fall. Is this what is recommended as far as timing?

Mach5, thank you for the bode of confidence. I can easily see how this long lanky top with areas of reverse taper could inadvertently happen in the process of growing an apex on a trident maple. Reverse taper has been a problem in some of my other trees, particularly the temperate deciduous variety when removing major branches and/or trying to create a new leader. In later threads, I may try to address this further with other individual trees.

Judy, in the unlikely event that I decide I just cannot part with the top (attached to the bottom), I will certainly carry out thread grafts on the middle portion of the trunk to achieve some much needed branching there. This would also possibly help to thicken the trunk some in the areas that are too skinny. Undoubtedly, the thread grafts will "heal-in" rapidly with this species. As a side note, I have had really back luck succeeding with thread grafts on my Korean hornbeam over the years.

 

[MauroUna]

Let's see that ficus!!

 

[Adair M]

Ryan, thank you so much for the suggestion. I suspected that might be the best course of action, particularly since trident maples are so fast growing and robust. I appreciate your adding the edited photo to give an idea of just how excellent the outcome might be! Once I receive this tree, I will likely grow it for a season, then do the chop this next winter while it is again dormant. It will be no problem to keep this baby in the refrigerator for 4 months, I guess I chose well. I will take a picture of my root-over-rock ficus and post it this evening. What I like about this ficus so much, is that is has been trained almost completely using clip-and-grow these past 15 years, and has a perfectly tapered trunk from base to apex (since no trunk chop was ever done). I did wire a few of the branches in the 2008-2010 timeframe, and have tried to obtain more successful areal roots, but I've noticed it takes just the right outside weather conditions for weeks on end to get the roots to even initiate downward from lower branches and the conditions must be sustained for the roots to grow to the soil line and root, rather than drying out.

Adair, if I decide to do the air layer, I could get it started in the next couple months and hopefully do the separation in the fall. Is this what is recommended as far as timing?

Mach5, thank you for the bode of confidence. I can easily see how this long lanky top with areas of reverse taper could inadvertently happen in the process of growing an apex on a trident maple. Reverse taper has been a problem in some of my other trees, particularly the temperate deciduous variety when removing major branches and/or trying to create a new leader. In later threads, I may try to address this further with other individual trees.

Judy, in the unlikely event that I decide I just cannot part with the top (attached to the bottom), I will certainly carry out thread grafts on the middle portion of the trunk to achieve some much needed branching there. This would also possibly help to thicken the trunk some in the areas that are too skinny. Undoubtedly, the thread grafts will "heal-in" rapidly with this species. As a side note, I have had really back luck succeeding with thread grafts on my Korean hornbeam over the years.

Yes, you could airlayer this spring and remove it by fall.

 

[Brian Underwood]

I second the air layer idea. This way you're not wasting any of your expensive purchase

 

[miker]

Thanks Brian! That is almost certainly the route I am going to take with this one. I may just keep it for a year, then start the intensive work next spring. On the other hand, getting the air-layer started in the next couple months makes the most sense. I should be able to get a nice finished tree out of the main portion within 3 years or so, and an excellent starter from the top!

Here are two photos of my ficus bonsai, such that it is currently. In need of a hard pruning of the entire canopy at the very least, which I will probably carry out in April or May. You can also see the hand-fern that has volunteered itself at the soil surface, which I plan to attempt to transplant at some point so it does impinge on or detract from the ficus.

Also, I included one photo of my buttonwood (Conocarpus erectus). This tree needs major work as well to improve the branch structure, but makes an excellent literati in my opinion. I also plan to re-orient the angle of it a bit during the next repotting. The foil is there because I am in the middle of applying lime-sulfur treatments to the shari. This has been WAY overdue.

 

[Eric Group]

I think you have a nice base, good tape, good movement... A good start to a nice tree!

I also recommend a chop, but I'd go a little higher if it was mine. I'd keep everything up to the bulge high up on the trunk. (See the first pic in your second post for an approximate area where I'd propose a chop) Keep that movement, keeping all the branches except one... Pic two- the first branch on the left, inside the curve, directly across from the large first branch on the right... This one stands out to me as an eye sore and one that will lead to more reverse taper issues in the future, and it just makes a more interesting flow with it gone IMO. I am far from the best/ most experienced voice on this, but I feel like making that move, growing the top from buds that will undoubtedly pop from the are around where you chop it... Will lead to a good tree in the future. You could get something good from the chop proposed by Ryan as well, not a bad idea.. Just giving you another option to consider. An air layer could certainly give you an interesting tree for a second Trident from that top... Keep in mind that if you layered off the top at the spot I propose, and decide after you do not like it and want to chop it further, you can always do that! I will generally recommend that because you can always cut more off later, but you can't glue that stuff back on after it is gone! The old saying is "think twice cut once" right? Well sometimes the first cut is part of the evaluation process. Think about removing that left branch man... It would be better even if it was a little lower on the trunk!

Good luck with it, and keep us posted please!

 

[miker]

Thanks Eric. I would certainly like to preserve as much of the "meat" of the tree as I can, so that may just be the best option. I also like shohin sized trees, but with this particular one I think I want to ultimately have a tree that is roughly the height it is now. Anywhere from 12-15" is what I have in mind. Also, I agree with you on removing that left branch. This will avoid the appearance of "bar branches", or really close to. I will then work on giving that branch on the left, right above it some movement, thickness and ramification, in that order. I am really going to love this tree. It is going to be my version of the so-called "Wizard of Oz" trident maple. I thoroughly enjoyed perusing that thread. What a great tree! I can just imagine it in the middle of a field or at the top of a large hill in nature.

I will make a promise to everyone interested that I will get that ficus and the buttonwood that I posted photos of above in presentable condition and post a detailed update six months from now. Then I can get suggestions on how to improve from there.

When I was in Pennsylvania visiting my folks in November, I purchased a Japanese white pine (Catherine Elizabeth cultivar) starter bonsai at a terrific nursery about 20 minutes outside of Reading. I just had to have one (it was around $30). I created a bench for it and left it in yard at my parent's house for obvious reasons and I hoping I can "winter" the tree there and keep it down here with me in the warm half of the year, perhaps keeping it in the sunniest window of the house some of the time, so the heat doesn't kill it (a few days in, a few days out...). I am not even sure that it has real bonsai potential, but will let everybody on here decide once it is down here with me.

 

[miker]

Update,

As mentioned in passing in another thread, I received my trident maple 3 days ago. I like it even more in person than in the photos, it is exactly the size I want and just has that "something" I was looking for in a tree. It is spending the next 30 days in the refrigerator to give it 720 more chill hours just for good measure (Memphis had a mild winter this year), then a repot into some pure double line small grain sized akadama and onto some styling work. I plan to wait until next year to execute any major changes, since I have read on here and elsewhere that it is best to only inflict one major trauma at a time. I ordered a 3-tiered stand to set up in a sunny area of the yard for most of my trees. I will post updates once I get that setup and installed and when I start working on the trident. Thanks again all for your guidance.

 

[sorce]

30 days in the refrigerator

I don't think a shorter dormancy will hurt you more than a refrigerator.

Sorce

 

[miker]

Sorce,

The refrigeration treatment does not hurt my trees in any way. It serves the exact same purpose as having my tree sit on a bonsai bench or in a cold frame up north, where it is (usually) consistently chilly/cold in the winter months. 37F is 37F for a deciduous tree. My Acer saccharum "Apollo" and American beech collected in PA are staying in for another few weeks.

In my further research, it has become obvious that Acer buergerianum (trident maple) has a low chill hour requirement. There are a number of healthy full sized trident maples in landscapes in North Florida. Chilling hours in North Florida are 2-3 times what we average in the Orlando area. Some enthusiasts even keep trident maples in the Orlando area, however, photos of their trees indicate that the trees do not perform well enough this far south for me (without providing chill hours in the way I have described). Also, I calculated the accumulated chilling hours for Memphis (where my tree was sent from) this season. These chilling hours, combined with the 8 days my tree spent in the refrigerator (608 Cordova, Tn +192 fridge =800 chill hours), is more than sufficient for it to have received its necessary winter rest period. Thus, I decided to bring it out after less than 30 days. The dormant buds are just starting to swell and I am waiting to repot until elongation of the new growth occurs (but before leafing out). I did some minor pruning and wired two of the lower branches, but have decided to enjoy my tree as is for a year before doing any drastic work on it.

I will post photos once my trident is fully leafed out.

 

[LanceMac10]

Have you used this method before?
Refrigerators are very dry and you run the risk of damaging the tree.
Pictures now will do.

And in no way is a fridge the same as a cold frame.

 

[sorce]

Sounds like you do have some experience.

Very Well!

Sorce

 

[namnhi]

Am in Houston and the tridents I have are doing just fine without the 'extra' dormancy they needed. I just think all this is not necessary consider you are much farther north than where I am.

 

[JoeR]

Sorce,

The refrigeration treatment does not hurt my trees in any way. It serves the exact same purpose as having my tree sit on a bonsai bench or in a cold frame up north, where it is (usually) consistently chilly/cold in the winter months. 37F is 37F for a deciduous tree. My Acer saccharum "Apollo" and American beech collected in PA are staying in for another few weeks.

In my further research, it has become obvious that Acer buergerianum (trident maple) has a low chill hour requirement. There are a number of healthy full sized trident maples in landscapes in North Florida. Chilling hours in North Florida are 2-3 times what we average in the Orlando area. Some enthusiasts even keep trident maples in the Orlando area, however, photos of their trees indicate that the trees do not perform well enough this far south for me (without providing chill hours in the way I have described). Also, I calculated the accumulated chilling hours for Memphis (where my tree was sent from) this season. These chilling hours, combined with the 8 days my tree spent in the refrigerator (608 Cordova, Tn +192 fridge =800 chill hours), is more than sufficient for it to have received its necessary winter rest period. Thus, I decided to bring it out after less than 30 days. The dormant buds are just starting to swell and I am waiting to repot until elongation of the new growth occurs (but before leafing out). I did some minor pruning and wired two of the lower branches, but have decided to enjoy my tree as is for a year before doing any drastic work on it.

I will post photos once my trident is fully leafed out.

My issue with the fridge was the dryness. It killed all the fine twigs on a maple I put in there.

How do you keep the humidity high?