Advice for Trident

Discussion in 'Maples' started by MapleGuru, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. MapleGuru

    MapleGuru Seedling

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Augusta, GA
    Any suggestions? I don't know if I should start over, do a heavy trunk chop and maybe try for a shohin, or if I should continue to grow second section of the tree?

    bigtrident.jpg

    Thanks in advance!
    -MapleGuru
     
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  3. 0soyoung

    0soyoung Masterpiece

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    That is a question only you can answer. If you want a sumo shohin, go for it. If you want to make a bigger bonsai, make a bigger tree. If you want both, get another tree, then you will just have to decide which is which. But I should say that lowest existing branches on this one are too high for sumo - if you can make or graft at least one much lower ...

    Isn't bonsai just a pain in the ass?
    Decisions, decisions, decisions. ;)
     
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  4. Smoke

    Smoke Imperial Masterpiece

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    Pretty good trunk in the right hands. I would propose you learn to graft PDQ.
     
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  5. Brian Van Fleet

    Brian Van Fleet Imperial Masterpiece

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  6. Dav4

    Dav4 Imperial Masterpiece

    Are we missing something? As others have said, the trunk looks good from that one picture. What was your vision for it and what's bothering you about it now? Fwiw, I know what I'd do with it.
     
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  7. Brian Van Fleet

    Brian Van Fleet Imperial Masterpiece

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    Me too...
    IMG_1728.JPG
     
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  8. MapleGuru

    MapleGuru Seedling

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    Location:
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    Your tree is awesome, BTW. Read the thread several times.
    its not that I saw any problems with it, I just couldn't make my mind up. This is my first tree that got me into bonsai and Im still learning development and how it changes over time. So I just wanted to hear and see what others would do. Maybe they had a better idea.

    Thanks for everyone's posts and ideas.
     
  9. sorce

    sorce Nonsense Rascal

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    Welcome to Crazy!

    Sorce
     
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  10. Smoke

    Smoke Imperial Masterpiece

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    You havn't posted an idea. Just trolling for others to make your bonsai.
    What is your skill level?
    Can you graft?
    Can you layer?
    Can you chop successfully?
    Can you prune for ramification and have you done it on other trees?
    Where would you like to see this tree in five years?

    Maple Guru...whats up with that... you should be teaching us!

    Posting lots of text on how to better someone elses tree take a lot of work. Importing photo's making lines and directional changes and reposting pictures. I could easily spend three or four hours in Photoshop designing your tree by the numbers and I have the trees at home to back up that statement. People want to know what it is they are doing for you. The long haul so to speak. So many people come here asking for help and are around a few weeks , get their feelings hurt by guys like me and then disappear. I have helped many people on this forum make trees and if you read all of that post by BVF you will see I offered much in the way of that tree. In fact go to the first page of that thread and look at the name that is the very first word of that thread.

    tell us about yourself, your background, your experience...a few trees to look at.


    and BTW, I would NOT do what the picture above shows as a first chop. JMO
     
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  11. MapleGuru

    MapleGuru Seedling

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Augusta, GA
     
  12. Dav4

    Dav4 Imperial Masterpiece

    I see your tree as being a medium to large tree when finished. As such, if it were mine, I'd square the roots away and plant it out in the ground next spring and let it grow for two years or so, then chop. I might chop where Brian indicated or I might chop a bit higher and see what pops on the trunk. Here's the thing... it's your tree:).
     
    miker likes this.
  13. MapleGuru

    MapleGuru Seedling

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    21
    Location:
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    You wonder why people get their feelings hurt and only stay a few weeks? Well, maybe its because the help you provide comes from a combative perspective; overbearing, degrading, and in your face kind of way. You usually will get a better response from people if you unclench your fist and open your hand.

    My very first post on here and you are berating me.......claiming that my attempts to get advice is actually just trying to get other people to grow my trees for me. Implying that a simple ask for help is in fact an attempt to get someone to labor over the tree until completion. If this is the case, then the other people who have created threads with the hope of getting help are not really wanting advice, they are wanting someone to grow their trees for them. They are just lazy, right Smoke? Its not because they don't know and need help............they are just lazy human beings, right, Smoke?

    When you have this kind of opinion of people, is it any wonder that people do not want to communicate with you? This shouldn't be a mystery to you by now.

    My knowledge is limited Smoke, hence the reason for asking for advice. I know how to grow the damn things, but I do not know how to progress them into bonsais. There are a few progression series on bonsai on the internet(not many that go from seedling to bonsai) and Brian's is bookmarked as one of the best. Truly outstanding. He makes it look like he found it out while strolling through the park. He makes it look like there was no intention or growing the tree to "what he wanted to see in 5 years." He didn't make the tree into what he wanted, he let the tree grow and decided what to do at the end of each growth season or two based on the growth that was provided. Or so he made it look. And Yes, I hate him personally for it. :)

    What is your skill level? Noob
    Can you graft? Never tried, but if it doesn't work, I didn't lose a tree.
    Can you layer? Yes
    Can you chop successfully? Not really. If someone suggested I chop, then I was going to need more advice because you do it wrong and you might lose the whole tree.
    Can you prune for ramification and have you done it on other trees? All trees are in early stages of development.........trunk, not ramification. So no!
    Where would you like to see this tree in five years? I dont know. That's what I have a hard time seeing. I do not have the experience with trees to see what certain cuts or techniques do to trees over a long period of time. I have not taken 1 class or been to any demonstrations. I learn by doing and asking for advice along the way..........you know like a class or demonstration would do.

    Posting lots of text on how to better someone elses tree take a lot of work. Importing photo's making lines and directional changes and reposting pictures. I could easily spend three or four hours in Photoshop designing your tree by the numbers and I have the trees at home to back up that statement.

    Or you could have spent a few seconds with MS Paint(or some other program of your choice) like Brian did............and guess what? That actually helped. It actually helps to see that some expert was thinking very close to what you were thinking. It actually helped that Brian showed me where he would make the next cut. And Im almost positive that he didn't spend hours "designing by the numbers" to help such a newb like me.........who will typically run away after two weeks.

    In other words, you could have easily helped with your plethora of knowledge, but chose to act like an ass instead. My question is..........Why?
     
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  14. MapleGuru

    MapleGuru Seedling

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    Augusta, GA
    Awesome, thank you.
     
  15. Smoke

    Smoke Imperial Masterpiece

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    Actually I don't have much time... your defensive...so there you go. Have fun
     
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  16. Saddler

    Saddler Mame

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    I am still fairly new here and have run into similar incidents as you on this forum. If you hang around long enough, will start to understand why this happens. When you are look at progressions from a few years ago, look at the commenters comment count and click on some of the lower counts "last seen march 2015" the month after they posted what you are looking at. There are a lot of short lived posters in this forum. I imagine it must get tedious to spend time helping and never hear what happens because they disappear.

    While agree Smoke could have chosen his words better, he isn't wrong. You never posted what your ideas are. You could have outlined two or three or six ideas you had in your head and you would have much more likely gotten whats good and bad about each idea rather then this thread.

    Your comment about laziness has a ring of truth to it. Unfortunately it is not in your favour. You haven't done your homework if you haven't looked at dozens, if not hundreds of similar trunk shaped trees. Read about hard pruning and trunk chops so much you reread pages not knowing if you have read that particular page before because you have read the same information so many other places, you read it again anyways looking for new tidbits of info. Same goes with root pruning. My point is you need to be able to defend yourself against the not so nice comments rather then being defensive.

    I would love to hear what your original ideas for the tree were.
     
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  17. sorce

    sorce Nonsense Rascal

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    Time to break this down for those of us who care to benefit from this site .

    A nice trunk...and "guru", likely sparked this seemingly snarky comment....
    Smoke is a Maple Guru... So he can say what he wants, the way he wants....

    He is just asking for a give and take....
    Instead of just a take and take.

    That's fair.

    Beyond that....there is NOTHING mean...
    And that first part only SEEMS mean.

    This...is asking you to ingratiate(thanks Lance!) yourself into our Crazy Community.

    Get hazed!

    What he was trying to say is....
    It takes more than that to cure....
    That one red line cant cure this!

    It takes time!

    Time Smoke was likely more than willing to put in...
    So long as he had an inkling of an idea you'd be here in ten years to watch his time make fruit.

    Anyway @MapleGuru .....
    I got no problems with you...
    Smoke is a tuff nut to crack as it may be.
    The tuffest. Hardest to understand.

    I know none of this matters now....
    For future reference for future preNuts!

    Sorce
     
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  18. rockm

    rockm Imperial Masterpiece

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    In defense of my friend Smoke, I have also been posting a very long time on bonsai boards. He's not wrong about becoming weary of "what should I do with this tree?" posts. They sometimes lead nowhere good as the original poster gets their back up at suggestions, fails to grasp what is being said, doesn't care what's being said because "they read somewhere that's not how it's done," etc.

    Smoke is also in a tough spot in his life. He doesn't need slack, just understanding.

    In any case, you could go many different ways with it--taller tree, chop into mame, etc. It is up to you to make that overall decision. It is key to anything else we can offer. Without a decision on the foundation of the tree, blueprints for how to build the rest of it are futile.

    So, what do you want in the end BIG bonsai, small bonsai, etc. A word of advice--the shorter the tree, the more powerful the trunk looks...
     
  19. sorce

    sorce Nonsense Rascal

    Messages:
    16,252
    Location:
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    Oh most important....

    This...

    Came at the end....

    One can tell that first part wasn't intended to be mean, Cuz here at the end is a sincere invitation for that ingratiation.

    There is no exing in the beginning if there is an invitation in the end.

    Chronological order....we must read it in and all of it.

    Peace.

    Sorce
     
  20. Giga

    Giga Masterpiece

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    I think I pick this one to quote :) I know I would chop where @Brian Van Fleet showed and grow a new leader. I tend to favor larger trees, as you can get a lot more detail into them(more feasting of the eyes). You could always send it my way. I have been the lookout for a trident!
     
  21. MapleGuru

    MapleGuru Seedling

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Augusta, GA
    Thank you for providing criticism without bashing my head in. When someone is offensive towards me, then its only going to cause me to be defensive. I will respond to you differently.

    I have read Peter Adams book, also a book called bonsai basics(it sucks, dont get it), and seen hundreds or thousands of maple bonsai. My problem is that I have not seen a lot of progressions from seedling to mature bonsai pot material. Sure, I've seen Brians and maybe a few others in Adams books. While these sources provide excellent learning material, they also don't explain everything or address all the problems that could happen or the reasons for why they do things.

    So Im not sure what my ideas were other than shohin or continue to let grow. That's why I asked. Maybe someone else saw something I didn't. I really don't care if I make a shohin or if it becomes a 3ft tall specimen. The excitement of having a "bonsai"(I know, this isn't a bonsai) is a thrill, just in an of itself. I just wanted to see what other people would do..........if it were their tree.

    This is initially what I was thinking of. chopchop.jpg I hope you can blow this up.


    So which one would you do? Red or Yellow? Of course neither answer is right, but I was just wanting to know what experts would do with it. Maybe I take your opinion, maybe I leave it. I was hoping to get a lot of opinions.............which would make me feel better about the decision that I need to make. Ok, ok, you guys learned that Im one of the most indecisive freaks on the planet. You win. :)
     

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