Advice: Japanese Maple trunk chop

the_paradoxed

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Hi all, I was looking for some advice as a long time bonsai enthusiast but generally a noob when it comes to all of it. I've had this maple growing in a regular pot for a number of years with very little attention. I decided to repot it and realised that it has some interesting trunk die back and roots, but there's no taper. In repotting I didn't remove much of the root system. I'm aware (now) that repotting in a bonsai pot at this stage wasn't the greatest idea. It seems the roots/tree is healthy and coped with the repotting well. I'm wondering if it is viable to do a trunk chop on this to develop taper? Any other advice or ideas would be appreciated, seems like there is some potential for this tree but also potential to kill it... 287000902_439234110918242_8447136997863104725_n.jpg286945541_728482048198927_2718502703817017879_n.jpg287189189_738677320592490_6871364346580695293_n.jpg286231800_1294097951121101_5040275072563366268_n.jpg
 

hampton

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You may get more response if you note your location in your profile. That will give folks a frame of reference for any advice that might be provided.

At risk of over playing my coverage you may have more success in a shorter period of time reading more and acquiring JMP seedling to do some developmental work on.

The tree pictured would probably benefit from a season or two to gain vigor before attempting any work.

Best,
Zak
 

the_paradoxed

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Thanks Zak, noted and updated. I'm in Melb Aus, so we're in the middle of winter now and I repotted this in late autumn. I've been trying to read as much as I can, if you've got anything in mind that might help it'd be much appreciated. Over the years I've also had a few JMP seedlings that I've played around with and only have very limited space where I am currently, but keen to continue learning/developing.

I had figured it might be best to leave for a season or two, or even potting in a larger more suitable pot to allow root development first.
 

Shibui

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I've been going through the smaller tridents and JM pruning for height reduction, for taper and to remove long internodes. Early winter is a good time to prune maples as they tend to bleed much less now than in late winter or spring.
Pruning back to the 1st branch will help a little with taper but still looks like quite along way with a straight trunk before the 1st bend and start of taper. It may be Ok if the tree is grown into a larger bonsai but probably not suited to a smaller bonsai without lots of time and effort. Starting again would definitely be easier and probably quicker.
Transfer to a larger container if planning to grow into a larger tree or to get significant thickening any time soon.
 

the_paradoxed

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Thanks Shibui, that's good to know re: pruning. I should have been more specific in my question as was wondering if chopping ~halfway down the trunk or lower, way below the 1st branch, could result in new branch growth but I assume that's fairly unlikely? I'm happy to start again and have a couple of other ones on the go but felt it was a shame to let this one go if it was possible to salvage.
 

Shibui

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I should have been more specific in my question as was wondering if chopping ~halfway down the trunk or lower, way below the 1st branch, could result in new branch growth but I assume that's fairly unlikely? I'm happy to start again and have a couple of other ones on the go but felt it was a shame to let this one go if it was possible to salvage.
Chopping to bare trunk will often result in buds but not always. JM can only grow buds from old nodes. The trunk almost certainly has nodes in there because once it was a tint seedling with leaves on the stem, therefore nodes. The problem is that some species, JM is one, the older the trunk the less likely the buds will grow. The damage to the trunk may also have damaged some of the possible buds. Healthier, vigorous plants respond far better to bare trunk chops than weaker trees. I'd class this one as on the weaker side given a recent out of season repot and trunk damage but hard to tell from a winter picture.
having had some fail to grow after bare trunk chop I'd reduce slower for safety. Initial chop to the first branch should give the tree some incentive to activate new buds lower down if it is possible. After those shoots get growing strongly you can reduce again until you get where you want.
There's no real scale in the pics to judge the size of this tree but I'm guessing probably only finger thick. You can grow a JM to that size in a year or 2 without any of the problems this one has or you could buy a new one with better potential for around $20?
 

sorce

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Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce
 

dbonsaiw

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I just wanted to echo what Shibui said about JMs not always backbudding. I blind chopped a number of JMs this season and so far only 1 has actually responded nicely with shoots everywhere. Others have few, low shoots or nothing at all. Looks like you have a long haul with this tree anyway, so no harm in going a little slower on the chop.
 

the_paradoxed

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I'm not too worried about taking time with this tree if it's what is needed, so happy to go slower and in the meantime grab a couple of other babies to play with. Interesting suggestion re: air layer. I assume that if I did this ~halfway down the trunk and was successful, it would have the effect of saving the top of the tree, and still allow a possibility of back budding? Although I assume that the likelihood of back budding after air layering would be even further decreased compared to trunk chopping?
 

Shibui

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Layering should not change the likelihood of back budding compared to chop at the same point. It may even increase chances as the top part keeps the trunk alive while roots form but the growth hormones from the top are stopped at the layer so any potential buds lower should activate during and after the layering.
 
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I'm not too worried about taking time with this tree if it's what is needed, so happy to go slower and in the meantime grab a couple of other babies to play with. Interesting suggestion re: air layer. I assume that if I did this ~halfway down the trunk and was successful, it would have the effect of saving the top of the tree, and still allow a possibility of back budding? Although I assume that the likelihood of back budding after air layering would be even further decreased compared to trunk chopping?
To be brutally honest, I'd forget about the bottom of this tree, it's not really suitable for Bonsai. Air Layer the top and if the bottom survives than great but I wouldn't have any expectations with the bottom portion.
 

Paradox

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As is, this tree is very weak. It needs to gain strength and vigor before you do anything.
Fertilize and let it grow a year or two before you decide on next steps
 

Paulpash

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This is the reason why grafting is so useful. You're not relying on chance backbuds. Grafting is also useful as a "catcher" for the dreaded V wedge of death.
 

the_paradoxed

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As is, this tree is very weak. It needs to gain strength and vigor before you do anything.
Fertilize and let it grow a year or two before you decide on next steps
Yup I wasn't really planning on doing anything to it right now, rather some pre-emptive advice seeking. To clarify, prior to the work the tree was in pretty good shape and had vigorous growth over summer. But anyway, all of this has also helped me reflect on the over-attachment that can develop and definitely helps to have other people's views, especially when it comes to letting go.
 
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