Advice on a mugho pine.

edprocoat

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I bought a mugho pine over a month ago. I kept it quiet as I have killed two pines already and this would have been the 3rd strike and my last pine if it died. I got it in a gallon nursery container and it has a nice trunk for its size. It had about 12 branches coming off one side, so I removed ten of them and just cut off the bottom of the root mass by half, just a straight cut with a saw across the bottom of the pot shaped mass of roots. I removed the candles it had growing as I thought it may help it to save its energy for surviving. Its budding with new candles now

I have read about needle pulling to promote regrowth of new needles, I want to know if anyone has experience and would care to share it with a mugho pine and this method. When pulling needles do you pull all both needles in one group or just one, this is something I have never seen addressed. Also is there any way of shortening back the branches, this had lots of long branches for such a short pine. I know with my tropicals I can just cut them back and they will resprout, gotta love tropicals for that reason alone. I assume that a pine is not that easy, at least from my experience. I have yet to attempt sorting out the roots anymore, I now know enough to wait until its dormant, although I do not know if this winter would be too soon. any advice would be appreciated.

ed
 

Jason

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I think if it had 12 branches and you removed 10, along with root reduction of 50%, you should stop and wait to see if it lives. Give it a season or two to recover, and then worry about needle plucking.

Here is some good info by Harry Harrington:

http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATMugo Pines Indepth.htm

There is more general information in the species guides.

I hope it does well.
 

Adair M

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Ed,

Mugo pines do not like to be hard pruned.

Personally, I've never had much luck with them, so I don't mess with them.

The easiest pine to work with is the Japanese Black Pine. Really. It is the most vigorous, most tolerant of root pruning, bending, wiring, de-candling, etc. Because of that, more "techniques" have been developed for it than any other pine. However, we cannot always transfer those techniques to other pines.

Good luck with your Mugo, I hope yours lives.

Just as an aside, my (somewhat) local bonsai shop has a bunch of little Mugo pines potted up in 5 inch pots. No styling has been done, they've just potted the tree up. Basicly, they're Mallsai. I said to the owner, "Wow, you've got a lot of cute little Mugos! I've never been able to keep one alive more than about a year." And he said, "I can't either. But I can sell them!" And so, I understand that he has to have something "that sells" to be able to stay in business.

That said, some people CAN keep Mugo pines. And have nice ones. It's just that our climate here in Georgia is not right for them.

Good luck! Got any pictures?
 

Dav4

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Mugo pines will not like overwintering in Florida...they love and need a good, cold winter dormancy.A Japanese black pine would have been able better choice for you.
 

edprocoat

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Mugo pines will not like overwintering in Florida...they love and need a good, cold winter dormancy.A Japanese black pine would have been able better choice for you.

Actually they (jbp) do not do well below zone 8, northernmost Fl. I see mughos for sale in every big box store all over central Fl. I do not how they will do, they seem to reccomend to zone 7, further north again, but I am going to give it a try. I would rather have the cheap mugho kick it than the expensive jbp, trunkwise this mugho has a trunk that is twice the size of the 75 to 100 dollar jbp's I see offered for sale. I am going to give it a try at this point, I was thinking about putting it in the fridge, but the wife would probably leave me at that point!

ed
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Actually they (jbp) do not do well below zone 8, northernmost Fl.
ed

JBP do fine in warm climates. Several members here grow them in hot So. Cal (zone 10), and I've seen them growing in Orlando (zone 9). We probably have a member or two here growing them successfully further South in FL. Mugo pines are European alpine trees, So I suspect they'd do far worse thsn JBP living as a snowbird.

Realizing the title of the post was advice on a mugo, I guess mine is to avoid them. There's a reason mugos have limited favor...especially compared to the relatively forgiving JBP. Good luck, but if you stumble on a black pine, give it a try.
 

Dav4

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I know of someone in the Orlando area that has great success with JBP, but I haven't seen one mugho pine here in the Atlanta area (usda zone 7, over 1000' above sea level), either as a bonsai or landscape material...they despise heat.
 

Kevster

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Ed

Vance seems to be the mugo specialist. He gave me some great advice and I have 2 doing great right now. Hopefully he will chime in. Try searching his threads or google Vance Wood mugo or mugho pine. He has left a lot of info here and on another site (I can't remember where but it was like a step by step tutorial) about the care of them. I too have killed many in the past but not this time! And TIMING is important with mugo. I've done some pretty hard prunning on the 2 I have and they are pushing out growth farther in on the branches and even the trunk.
They are AMAZING trees. As for your climate, I don't know. Vance would be the man to talk to. I know he had a few articles in Mid-America Bonsai website.
 

Vance Wood

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With the exception of you guys living in the Deep South, there is no reason you cannot grow Mugos as long as you keep a couple of things in Mind. Do all major work anytime after Father's Day. Do not remove the needles all over the tree like some are prone to do on JBP's. Do not prune more than about 60% of the foliage at any one time, and when you hard prune leave a one inch stub to prevent die back. Make sure the soil is well drained but water frequently unless the soil seems to be becoming soggy.

Candle prune after the 4th of July.
 

davetree

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Also if it had 12 branches and you cut off 10 you probably
should prepare to bury this one as well.
 
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How funny, I didn't realize people avoided them so much... I love Mugho, and find them as easy to work as JBP... and a lot less hostile. Love the finer soft needles on a mugho. As with most things, don't be in a hurry, and you'll have better success. Most of our work has been a process of gradual branch removal and heavy thinning but not completely, so they are growing like nuts. Eric and I both have one... I'll have to snap a photo of mine... it's ready to be thinned out some, and then it'll explode with growth again. Good times... ;)

V
 

Adair M

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Victrinia,

You live in Washington. Very different climate than here in Georgia.

As an aside...

I used to work at Georgia-Pacific here in Atlanta, I started there about 2 years after the headquarters moved here from Portland. I worked there 5 years. It was interesting watching the Portlanders slowly move back to Portland, one by one. Most of the transferees never really assimilated themselves to Atlanta, and took the transfer as an adventure.

Mugo pines do the same. They wish they were "back home". They find a way to leave.

Oh, and the local nursery stores, and big box stores sell them like hotcakes because they're so cute. And Alberta Spruce, too. They get lots of repeat sales.
 
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Well Florida zone 8... aside from being muggy as all get out has to be something similar to us since I'm a zone 8b. :)

And Georgia... sweet Georgia... Can't tell you how much I love the food... lol

V
 

Dav4

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I never said you can't keep a mugho as a bonsai. Heck, I had a few back in MA (I left them there when I moved South). The issue is that Ed travels with all his trees down to Florida each fall/winter for more then a few months. Mughos don't survive for long in the landscape here in the Atlanta area, which usually has a descently cold but short winter, with long hot growing seasons. If the mugho were to stay in Ohio year round, it would have a fighting chance...in Florida, not so much.
 
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Paradox

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The fact they don't like heat has me worried somewhat. I'm in NY and its nothing like Fla, but I had some days in the last week or so that my thermometer in my bonsai area read 110. :/ My 3 mugos all seem to be doing Ok so far. Next years buds are forming on them.
 
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Dav4

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The fact they don't like heat has me worried somewhat. I'm in NY and its nothing like Fla, but I had some days in the last week or so that my thermometer in my bonsai area read 110. :/ My 3 mugos all seem to be doing Ok so far. Next years buds are forming on them.
A few days in the upper 90's or even 100's will not bother a mugho one bit, assuming it's watered appropriately. Honestly, I think it has less to do with the actual high temps we all can get during summer, but more the constant temps in the 90's that the South gets and keeps pretty much daily starting in May, right through September... and winter here starts December 15 and ends about Valentines Day...pretty short. Just a guess, but there must be a reason you don't see them survive in the landscape around here for long.
 
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Vance Wood

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After reading through this thread I am struck that there seems to be still, an undertow of resistance to the Mugo Pine. I still believe that failures with this tree are more likely to be caused by some sort of failure in care specific to it, and not locational. If the location has no winter you could have an argument, but as long as there is a winter in excess of six weeks, the summer heat is controlable and no excuse other that an unwillingness to keep the pots cool could be blamed. I don't mean to seem critical of those who are saying boo to the Mugo, that's your choice, but your choice is not reasonably substantiated by the facts and should not be made to sound like gospel.
 
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