Advice on CBS

[Schmikah]

Long story short, this blue spruce has been in the same pot for 13-ish years. I inspected the roots and it looks like there is some damaged ones near the edge of the pot (didn't have an extra hand to take another picture).

I'll take any pruning, repotting, horticultural, or design advice you can give. I'm anxious to get into the roots and repot since it's been in the same pot for so long but I'm concerned about shocking it too much. I'm thinking I might need to treat it like yamadori rather than field nursery stock.

 

[Adair M]

No, just treat it like a potted tree. Which it is! Yamadori would have long running roots which would have the majority of their feeders way out on the far ends. No such problem with yours. Circling roots? You bet! But they’re easy to handle... just cut them off when you repot.

 

[sorce]

Sorce

 

[Schmikah]

Sorce

I must be missing something

 

[Adair M]

I must be missing something

It’s Sorce. I only halfway understand anything he says when he types a post. He must have decided that’s too much, so he’s become even more cryptic!

 

[sorce]

I must be missing something

You already have my thoughts on this material. It looks a bit more healthy here.

Just be sure you don't end up cutting off all the circling roots, that may also have feeders way out at the ends.

, a pot alone doesn't guarantee a situation any different than,

long running roots which would have the majority of their feeders way out on the far ends.

This,

No such problem with yours

Is the statement of a physcic, no More, no Less.

But these folks say I ruin folks' trees.

It's a god damned hoot!

Best @Schmikah , I'm embarrassed there is a "thing" to apologize for involving you in at all!

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

You already have my thoughts on this material. It looks a bit more healthy here.

Just be sure you don't end up cutting off all the circling roots, that may also have feeders way out at the ends.

, a pot alone doesn't guarantee a situation any different than,


This,


Is the statement of a physcic, no More, no Less.

But these folks say I ruin folks' trees.

It's a god damned hoot!

Best @Schmikah , I'm embarrassed there is a "thing" to apologize for involving you in at all!

Sorce

Hmm...

I remove the matted roots off the bottoms of potted trees, and remove the circling roots every time I repot.

And I don’t push trees too far just to see how much they can take before they die, which I’ve read is one of your specialities.

I have posted many, many times in this forum on the proper way to repot trees, including detailed instructions on “half bare rooting” conifers.

I have never lost a tree due to messing up a repotting.

 

[sorce]

I have never lost a tree due to messing up a repotting

What is the closest situation you've worked with to this one?

I've never lost a tree due to messing up a repotting either.

Just because you have posted many times how to properly Repot a tree doesn't mean a fucking thing against this ...

No such problem with yours. Circling roots? You bet! But they’re easy to handle... just cut them off when you repot.

You actually don't think there is any chance at all that there are no feeders except at the end of those long circling roots?

You simply can't know this for certain.

Or ARE you phsycic? Cuz hey ..I'm broke.

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

Dude, I’ve repotted dozens, if not hundreds, of trees that are in nursery containers, transitioning them from those containers to bonsai pots. Often, you can’t do it in one go, you have to move to a smaller, or better proportioned container first, but in all cases removing circling roots is mandatory.

Sure, the tree needs feeders, there will still be feeders in the core of the rootball. The circling roots are there because that the easiest place for the tree to find water. An old, dense rootball doesn’t drain well. So the water takes the path of least resistance, which is between the rootball and the inside of the container. The circling roots find the water there. And they also create kind of a barrier to prevent water from being absorbed into the interior of the rootball.

Now, when you do a proper repot, removing the circling roots, replacing half the soil with good, open, well draining inorganic soil, the conditions for the roots will be radically improved. No longer will water drain primarily around the inside edge of the pot, it will drain straight down thru the entire rootball. (At least it’s will initially on the HBR side). New feeders will get supported on the interior of the rootball. You’ll get more plentiful, small, young aroots on the interior, and fewer heavy “buttress” style roots.

Proper rootwork is fundamental to maintain healthy bonsai for the long term.

 

[Forsoothe!]

This is a case for the creator of this wannabe...

Only good enough for Best of Show and Masters 1st Place. @Vance Wood

 

[sorce]

Proper

We're getting there now.

Dude, I’ve repotted dozens, if not hundreds, of trees that are in nursery containers, transitioning them from those containers to bonsai pots.

I frankly don't believe this.

1. For the, "dude".
2. For the unsurity of dozens or hundreds.
3. And most importantly, because if it were true, with any majority being spruce, I doubt your educated stance would remain, "just cut them off".

On another note, this isn't a "nursery potted" spruce.

In all fairness and honor towards the material (which all our thoughts should be based in), this WAS a nursery potted spruce.

It will have a core indicative of such.

It's first pot, which only the original planter may know, Mrs. Schmikah may.
(Every stage between)
The pot Mrs. Schmikah repotted from.

Then this current square ordeal.

The roots are going to do exactly what that has had them do, which will also have to do with where the drain holes were in each pot.

The soil content will have mattered.

Most of that stuff, we do not know.

So my thing is, we can't know if those roots are any different from the .....

Yamadori would have long running roots which would have the majority of their feeders way out on the far ends.

Those long running roots couldn't have grown thru something they couldn't grow thru, so how do we know there are no feeders there? There was in the past.

How is a pot ALWAYS still providing an environment close to the core condusive to feeder growth?

In my experience, which, by level of observation can be greater than yours with no regards to length of study, once a spruce particularly, but Any tree really, moves on, as roots do when they circle, a whole host of things determine what the previous sections of root has done. It is never determined by my level of education, or yours.

If this...

, the tree needs feeders, there will still be feeders in the core of the rootball

Were always true, we wouldn't need HBR.

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

We're getting there now.




I frankly don't believe this.

1. For the, "dude".
2. For the unsurity of dozens or hundreds.
3. And most importantly, because if it were true, with any majority being spruce, I doubt your educated stance would remain, "just cut them off".

On another note, this isn't a "nursery potted" spruce.

In all fairness and honor towards the material (which all our thoughts should be based in), this WAS a nursery potted spruce.

It will have a core indicative of such.

It's first pot, which only the original planter may know, Mrs. Schmikah may.
(Every stage between)
The pot Mrs. Schmikah repotted from.

Then this current square ordeal.

The roots are going to do exactly what that has had them do, which will also have to do with where the drain holes were in each pot.

The soil content will have mattered.

Most of that stuff, we do not know.

So my thing is, we can't know if those roots are any different from the .....



Those long running roots couldn't have grown thru something they couldn't grow thru, so how do we know there are no feeders there? There was in the past.

How is a pot ALWAYS still providing an environment close to the core condusive to feeder growth?

In my experience, which, by level of observation can be greater than yours with no regards to length of study, once a spruce particularly, but Any tree really, moves on, as roots do when they circle, a whole host of things determine what the previous sections of root has done. It is never determined by my level of education, or yours.

If this...


Were always true, we wouldn't need HBR.

Sorce

Sorce, I don’t what your problem is, you’ve obviously got it in for me. Repotting a spruce isn’t any different than any other conifer. You can imagine all manner of things in your head, but when it gets down to it, they’re all pretty much managed the same way.

As for my experience... I teach repotting classes. People will drive for hundreds of miles to attend them. And they come back, year after year. There must be a reason.

Am I psychic? No. I have potted enough trees that look similar to this one to know what to expect.

There are enough people on this forum who have met me personally, who know first hand that I’m not spouting Bull Hocky. You can live in your fantasy world all you like, but I tell it like it is. And, I can back it up with the trees to show for it.

Do I know everything about bonsai? No, not at all. But, I don’t postulate on stuff I don’t know anything about, either. I only post on topics where I have relevant knowledge and experience. And figure it’s worth sharing.

 

[coh]

Am I psychic? No. I have potted enough trees that look similar to this one to know what to expect.

He didn't ask if you were psychic, he asked if you were phsycic

 

[Adair M]

He didn't ask if you were psychic, he asked if you were phsycic

Indeed he did. I think that’s one of those questions where it is best to neither confirm nor deny...

 

[sorce]

not spouting Bull Hocky. You can live in your fantasy world all you like

See, I never said you're spouting bull hockey.

I am talking about omission.

Yet I live in a fantasy world.
(Projecting)

Sorce

 

[Schmikah]

Looks to me like they stayed in the pot without jumping out the drain holes. It is definitely one giant root mass.

 

[Adair M]

There’s likely a mat of roots on the bottom, and along all the sides. You can cut those off with shears.

But, this is the wrong time of year to do it!

Wait until late February/early March.

 

[Schmikah]

There’s likely a mat of roots on the bottom, and along all the sides. You can cut those off with shears.

But, this is the wrong time of year to do it!

Wait until late February/early March.

I did have to remove it from the pot (couldn't take the in-laws pot), but I kept the root ball intact and transplanted it in a pot large enough to contain the original roots with room on the sides.

 

[Adair M]

I did have to remove it from the pot (couldn't take the in-laws pot), but I kept the root ball intact and transplanted it in a pot large enough to contain the original roots with room on the sides.

Don’t forget to give it a “real repot” in Feb/Mar. You need to remove that “crust” of matted roots. It will be ok until then, but it’s important to remove them.