Advice on collecting live oak

Messages
111
Reaction score
2
Location
Austin, Tx
Does anyone have any experience collecting scrub oak here in Texas? Rockm?
Can it be collected in one dig? After care? Should they be barerooted or do I try to keep the rootball soil intact?
I have heard they are hard to keep alive and wondering if they need a long term plan to collect.
I have had a lot of really good experience digging cedar elm and wondering how much different live oak would be?
 

Zach Smith

Omono
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
2,853
Location
St. Francisville, LA
USDA Zone
8
Does anyone have any experience collecting scrub oak here in Texas? Rockm?
Can it be collected in one dig? After care? Should they be barerooted or do I try to keep the rootball soil intact?
I have heard they are hard to keep alive and wondering if they need a long term plan to collect.
I have had a lot of really good experience digging cedar elm and wondering how much different live oak would be?
Cedar elm vs live oak = day vs night. I have never had good luck collecting live oak, though once containerized they grow like crazy and take a lot of abuse (tried my best to kill one this year and failed). Maybe others will add their experience to this thread.

I've been told it's best to collect in early spring as the leaves are changing out. This sounds reasonable, but I can't comment from personal experience.

Zach
 

Poink88

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,968
Reaction score
120
Location
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
USDA Zone
8b
Cedar elm vs live oak = day vs night. I have never had good luck collecting live oak, though once containerized they grow like crazy and take a lot of abuse (tried my best to kill one this year and failed). Maybe others will add their experience to this thread.

I've been told it's best to collect in early spring as the leaves are changing out. This sounds reasonable, but I can't comment from personal experience.

Zach

I have no experience collecting live oak but I will ask around and let you know what I learn. What I read is similar to Zach's comment above.

I heard one man here (who is supposed to be famous) that used to collect a lot of it and sells them. He loves them so much (I was told) that if he can do it all over again...he will only bonsai Live Oak.

Like Zach, my (one and only nursery bought) tiny live oak was abused and chopped to a stump and it sprouted like crazy. I will be on the look out for better stock next year...and might even try collecting too.
 

Poink88

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,968
Reaction score
120
Location
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
USDA Zone
8b
Here is the response I got from Joey who is a fellow Austinite and a very active member (past President) of the Austin Bonsai Society...

"Live Oaks aren't too bad to collect, they're really hardy trees if collected healthy. I'd collect in the spring before bud push (just like the rest), but I have gathered trees that were pushed over by bulldozer, trimmed them up and they've sprung to life. You must have some fine roots, but Live oaks send out very long roots and it's impossible to get a good "ball" from the wild. The plus side is that older plants don't have a tap root, and you'll find most of them have a pretty flat root base. It's the aftercare that seems to be vital. My past experience with them, is they survive collecting, but then die 6 months to a year later. Trial and error has proven two vital things (which are important really in collecting all trees, but especially oaks as they're less forgiving): well drained soil and full sun. They will need lots of water, oaks are thirsty trees, but don't like wet feet. I think your yard should do fine for them. Also, it's good not to let their roots freeze. They're best treated like Crepe Myrtle, Pomegranate and other sub-tropicals: left outside for winter rest, but set on the ground and sometimes covered. Chuck Ware has some FANTASTIC Live Oaks in his personal collection out at Jade Gardens. He's a great resource for the species!"

If you can join us next meeting, introduce your self to me, Joey, or directly to Chuck. I am sure they can help you.

I plan on starting next month but mostly Cedar Elm. I have not scouted any Live Oak source yet.
 
Messages
111
Reaction score
2
Location
Austin, Tx
Thanks a million. It is about time I get involved with the Austin bonsai society. I have learned a lot the hard way through trial and error but it would sure be nice to speed up the learning curve and learn from people who actually know what they are doing. I will try to make the next meeting.
 

Poink88

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,968
Reaction score
120
Location
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
USDA Zone
8b
Thanks a million. It is about time I get involved with the Austin bonsai society. I have learned a lot the hard way through trial and error but it would sure be nice to speed up the learning curve and learn from people who actually know what they are doing. I will try to make the next meeting.

We meet at Zilker Park Botanical Garden Library. Here is the link to the club calendar. http://www.austinbonsaisociety.com/clubcalendar.html The timing is perfect too...Christmas Party!!! :D

December 12th 7:00pm – 9:00pm
ABS Monthly Meeting
Holiday Party

You can come as a visitor to see if it is for you. I am not always there but Joey is and it will be hard to find a nicer person who is passionate with bonsai (he can even tolerate me! LOL)
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
22,515
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
I haven't collected live oak. I have one, but it was dug by the "famous old guy" (Vito Megna) almost 20 years ago. Vito told me much the same story on technique that's been described here--early spring before buds move. Also, he said that once collected, if the tree drops all of its leaves, it is a GOOD sign. Those that lose their leaves completely immediately post-collection had a much higher survival rate than those that retained their leaves.

As for live oak not freezing, well, I allow mine to get hit four or five times by hard freezes before I put it in storage in a cold greenhouse for the winter here in No. Va. Since the soil volume is pretty large around its roots, it doesn't freeze all the way through, but some roots do get frozen. It hasn't had a problem in the 15 or so years I've had it.

I can say that it does like water in the growing season, free-draining soil and full sun all summer. However, it is a pretty drought tolerant tree, it has dried out several times (and I allow it to every so often) I water when new shoots begin to droop a bit. Too much water promotes extremely large leaves...
 

Poink88

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,968
Reaction score
120
Location
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
USDA Zone
8b
rockm...some of these tips might have come from Vito himself too. Joey & Chuck (referenced above) knew the guy.
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
22,515
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Probably did. Not many people were digging live oak 15-20 years ago. Cedar elm, maybe, but not live oak, at least not successfully.

Vito is missed greatly. His lower back gave out and he left bonsai. He was an unsung pioneer of American bonsai. He collection skills and knowledge was at least equal to Nick Lenz'. I wish Vito would have written a book about collecting southern (and Texican) species. He certainly had the knowledge.

He was posting online photos of collected stock back in the 90's, which was far ahead of its time. He had some spectacular trees, including live oak back then.
 
Messages
111
Reaction score
2
Location
Austin, Tx
Had some time this morning and went for a short hike on a couple sites. Just don't see any oaks worth collecting. Even amongst some great gnarly Cedar Elms the live oak grows tall an thin with not much taper or anything in the lower branching. I am thinking I need to go further out into the hill country where there is more rock and less soil. I learned that the good Cedar Elms are where there is a good amount of rock and a clearing with lots of sun and very very little Ashe Juniper that tends to crowd everything out and make for really spindly trees.

I have seen some well figured live oak growing on the face of the rock walls that our roads are cut into. I figure the Texas Highway department won't give me permission to dig on the side of the road so I am going to see if I can scope out some private land with similar conditions and permission.
 

Newcastle

Sapling
Messages
28
Reaction score
5
Location
sierra nevada foothills, placer county, ca
USDA Zone
9B
This guy is in the middle of a pasture that frequently has goats, sheep and cows. It has been eaten back several times. IMG_1578.jpg

I have a few volunteers in the yard I have let grow.
IMG_1571.jpg

When attempting work with oaks do you leave them in native soil for a few years or a mix of both? There are several small oaks in another area that I have the opportunity to dig up to save from the burn pile. Most are pretty leggy. I know oaks don't like roots disturbed but I want to give it a shot.
 

milehigh_7

Mister 500,000
Messages
4,922
Reaction score
6,120
Location
Somewhere South of Phoenix
USDA Zone
Hot
This guy is in the middle of a pasture that frequently has goats, sheep and cows. It has been eaten back several times. View attachment 28853

I have a few volunteers in the yard I have let grow.
View attachment 28854

When attempting work with oaks do you leave them in native soil for a few years or a mix of both? There are several small oaks in another area that I have the opportunity to dig up to save from the burn pile. Most are pretty leggy. I know oaks don't like roots disturbed but I want to give it a shot.


Wow you have some really awesome potential stuff. You really should hook up with someone local that is experienced to have a look around and point out the good ones. I would try to hold off the clearing and burning until you can do that.
 

berobinson82

Omono
Messages
1,515
Reaction score
441
Location
Central Virginia, US
USDA Zone
7a
Just wanted to say that rockm's live oak is a most impressive tree to see up close. Hell of a bonsai, sir!
 
Top Bottom