Advice on Hornbeam Trunk Chop

tfields

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I collected an American Hornbeam and performed a trunk chop yesterday - both firsts for me. I've posted a photo of the the trunk chop that I botched, the trunk I brought back from the woods, my pruning of the roots, and a photo of where I have the tree now.

I would appreciate any observations - especially if the roots seem sufficient. I painted the chop and the large root I pruned with wood glue. I think my biggest blunder was using the bypass pruners to do the trunk chop. I thought I'd get a cleaner cut but ended up pulling some bark away.

I'm worried about the 'training pot' I put it in. I notice in some of Zach Smith's photos that he uses a standard nursery pot that is deeper. The tree is 14" (not including the roots), 2 1/2 inch diameter. The training pot is only 4" deep. Since the tree is pretty tall, I wonder if I should cut off another inch or two to get past the tear in the bark.

And finally, I have it sitting under another tree to provide some shade for now. I plan to provide more sun in a couple of weeks.
Thanks for any advice.
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GreatLakesBrad

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Cool movement in that trunk. Nice find.

The container allows for the trunk base to fully be covered according to your photo (kinda hard to see) so I think while you might have optimally used a deeper container, it should suffice.

My concern is around the lack of fine roots. Did you cut around the roots and leverage a chopstick to loosen soil? It’s easy to tear out the fine roots while pulling a tree - my first two I had issues and didn’t loosen the soil enough around the base.

Re: the trunk chop, you’re correct in that you should use a saw instead with some fine teeth to cut cleanly through. If you have a pruning saw, I might consider chopping lower, though you’ve already repotted and secured... may do more damage.

In the future you can also always use a concave cutter to clean up a sawed off cut that didn’t go as planned.

Hope this one makes it!
 

tfields

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Thank you! I can post another photo of the trunk tomorrow. I wanted to get the dappled shade in a photo to make sure I'm providing enough light for buds to pop. Should I move it out into a bit more sun at this point or let it recover for a few weeks?

Hopefully you can see in the 3rd photo that I cut off a large root that looked great, but I think it was up too high. It's now slightly burried under the dirt. I was hoping it would die back some since I covered it with wood glue, and then I can carve it eventually so that it looks as if it's part of the trunk. But I'm not sure how that works - if it's possible to turn a root into part of the trunk?

And you are right on the small roots - I wasn't careful enough as I dug the tree out. There weren't a lot of fine roots, so I should have been especially careful. I'll know next time.
 

canoeguide

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Disclaimer: I have zero experience with collecting.
Observations: That soil may be no bueno. It looks like field or potting soil. I'd go ahead and chop this lower since the trunk is relatively straight and uninteresting and you've torn the bark. You aren't going to miss another few inches off that trunk. Right now you can re-chop it. Once roots start growing it will be more traumatic.
 

tfields

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I'm thinking the same way - to go ahead and cut the trunk. I have it wired into the pot so I don't think it will disturb it too much if I use a fine blade.

The soil is actually a bonsai mix that I ordered online. It's much finer and has sand - not what I thought I was getting. I was very disappointed but I had to top dress with it because I ran out of pine bark. I saved the pine bark for the bottom of the pot and used the bonsai "soil" for the top.
 

_#1_

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The trunk will die back to some degree. Do you see any visible buds along the trunk?

They look soil on the moist side. But that do look like potting soil though.
 

Shibui

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There are often very few fine roots close to the trunks. Most species are able to grow new roots but mostly the new roots grow from the cut ends so there's no point keeping long thick roots. When it recovers and you are ready to move to a smaller pot you'll only need to cut the roots back and that will remove all the new roots again.
I would leave the trunk alone. No matter where you cut it will still need to be reduced later when the new shoots have grown. As long as the original cut is low enough to stimulate buds in the area you want new branches and leader it is fine. As mentioned, recutting now will disturb your new planting.

A root above ground is just another part of the trunk. Both are woody. The only difference is above or below ground. As long as the root has some parts in to soil so it can obtain food and water it will live as an extension of the trunk. How do you suppose trees in eroding areas manage ? or Exposed root bonsai?
 

tfields

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I would leave the trunk alone. No matter where you cut it will still need to be reduced later when the new shoots have grown. As long as the original cut is low enough to stimulate buds in the area you want new branches and leader it is fine. As mentioned, recutting now will disturb your new planting.

A root above ground is just another part of the trunk. Both are woody. The only difference is above or below ground. As long as the root has some parts in to soil so it can obtain food and water it will live as an extension of the trunk. How do you suppose trees in eroding areas manage ? or Exposed root bonsai?

It's embarrassing to read something so obvious, but that hadn't connected for me yet. I just learned 2 obvious things from you - I thought I was trunk chopping just above the bud where I wanted the new leader to form. It makes more sense that I'm chopping to stimulate growth - and to have multiple buds to choose from. Which is a good thing because after I got it home I realized I cut too high. Now I'll have other options. So I've changed my mind again and will wait before cutting the trunk again.

I also am clear on the root above ground - which seems obvious now. I probably should have kept that nice root instead of pruning it off. It looked really cool - good nebari I think - but it was really high so I cut it back. This is a learning tree, so I'll get better. Thanks for the information.
 

rockm

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SEAL THE CHOP. Critical in aftercare for collected hornbeam. If you don't have "proper" wound sealant, Elmers glue, plumbers putty will work. Elmers tends to dissolve in rain though...

Also, the reason Zach uses deep container is to bury the top of the root crown (ALL of the roots that might be at the surface) beneath at least an inch of soil. Leaving the tops of the roots-nebari--exposed to the air will dry them out and kill them. Admiring the nebari is for later, right now you're concerned with keeping it alive. Also, the soil should drain VERY VERY well--no ponding on the surface, muddy consistency. Well draining soil advances root production.

Full sun in the morning. Afternoon shade. Cutting trunks too short is a common beginner's mistake. Don't make it. You cannot direct exactly where the new leader will come from. That is up to the tree. Leaving a bit more extension on the trunk allows for more options. Cutting it to "final height" at collection is a mistake.

Your work is done for this tree for the next two years. Don't mess around with repotting, more pruning. Let it grow...
 

tfields

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SEAL THE CHOP. Critical in aftercare for collected hornbeam. If you don't have "proper" wound sealant, Elmers glue, plumbers putty will work. Elmers tends to dissolve in rain though...

Also, the reason Zach uses deep container is to bury the top of the root crown (ALL of the roots that might be at the surface) beneath at least an inch of soil. Leaving the tops of the roots-nebari--exposed to the air will dry them out and kill them. Admiring the nebari is for later, right now you're concerned with keeping it alive. Also, the soil should drain VERY VERY well--no ponding on the surface, muddy consistency. Well draining soil advances root production.

Full sun in the morning. Afternoon shade. Cutting trunks too short is a common beginner's mistake. Don't make it. You cannot direct exactly where the new leader will come from. That is up to the tree. Leaving a bit more extension on the trunk allows for more options. Cutting it to "final height" at collection is a mistake.

Your work is done for this tree for the next two years. Don't mess around with repotting, more pruning. Let it grow...
Great - thank you! My biggest regret is the soil, but we'll see how this does. And thanks for the explanation on the deeper pot - makes sense.

I did cover the cut with wood glue, but the trunk was still damp so it's not fully dried. I have cut paste coming in the mail - will be here Friday. I may just clean off the wood glue and use the cut paste then. It's raining here all week so I'm sure the glue won't dry.
 

sorce

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Welcome to Crazy!

Saw through the Cambium and the first quarter inch or so all the way around first, then your bark won't tear.

Sorce
 

tfields

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Welcome to Crazy!

Saw through the Cambium and the first quarter inch or so all the way around first, then your bark won't tear.

Sorce
Yes - great idea!! I'm making notes for next time. And it is crazy! Especially how excited I was. And how unexcited my family was for a bare limb sticking out of a bowl of dirt.
 

Tall Guy

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Hi, I think I can help with your tree, hornbeams are one of my favorite species and I’ve collected many. They are easy to work with. I’ll show you some pics of a tree that was very similar to yours that I collected 5 years ago. I can tell from your roots that this tree was growing on a slight slope, as was mine. If you plant it vertically in a pot, then you have the roots on one side sticking up. I opted to go with this and have a tree with a lean.

First your potting mix, I use 60% turface, 40% composted pine bark fines, not big chips. I have used this for years and it works extremely well for collected deciduous trees. If your tree has only been planted a day or two it won’t hurt it a bit to start over. No roots have grown yet. you can get turface at John Deere wholesale garden centers. Bout $10.00 for a 50 pound bag, enough to do dozens of trees. I’d source this if you can.

Now for your roots, most all of your new roots will form at the ends of the large roots, where they will callous over. Fine roots really matter very little on collected stumps like this. what you want to do is figure out your planting angle now and size of pot you would want to use in the future and mentally cut your roots to fit now. Cut so the tree can sit flat on a table at the depth you envision in the future. Angle the cut ends like 45 degrees. Some will say slowly reduce roots over time, but that is crazy. This tree doesn’t care if that root you left is 12 inches long or 3. It is just going to grow new roots at the cut ends. If you have to reduce later, you will just be cutting off all the progress you have made and starting over. so trim to final lengths now, it won’t hurt the tree.

The top, these trees will throw a lot of new buds from the trunk, but you never know exactly where. Best to just let it do it’s thing and you can pick the new leader in a year or two and trim the trunk to final length then. The important thing is to seal the copped trunk so the tree doesn’t loose lots of water through the chop. Get a spray can of, usually black, tree wound sealant. most garden centers have this. You can hold the tree upside down and thoroughly coat the chop. It dries in seconds and this way it doesn’t run down all over your tree, will wear away in a year or two. Much cheaper than cut paste. A can will last a very long time.

Your planter, I use the black plastic dish washing tubs at Walmart, bout three dollars each. These are about 18x18 inches and bout 8 inches deep. I’m concerned yours is too shallow. You want those cut ends of the roots to be well covered with your mix, so there is not any drying. If too close to the surface in summer new roots could dry and die. Remember these new roots are very fragile and will form at the cut ends of the large roots.

Finally, pick a spot that is east facing - morning sun and afternoon shade. And this is important, don’t be moving the tree around for the first couple years. If you do use one of those tubs, they flex quite a bit, this causes movement of the soil mix when moved, and this can damage/destroy the fine new roots. If your planter is rigid then this is not as much an issue. Then just keep your tree well watered. I don’t worry about fertilizing the first year. The tree really has to grow some roots first anyway to access the fertilizer, and the fine new roots can be burnt easily by fertilizer if you aren’t very careful. The second year you can start a fertilizing regimen.

By doing all this I think your tree will have an excellent chance. I don’t think I have ever lost a trunk chopped hornbeam, they are pretty tough. Remember to always collect deciduous trees while still dormant. If collected after they have leafed out a lot of the tree’s stored energy resources have gone into those new leaves you chopped off, and this reduces your chance of a successful collection. Best of luck with your tree, I hope this helps. Randy
 

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tfields

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@Tall Guy thank you so much for your response! Your hornbeam is beautiful - the nebari and the lean are really nice. And, you are correct, I collected mine on a hillside. I was so excited to finally get confident enough to collect a tree from our woods last year, but then I realized that all the trees in Indiana that I thought I would be able to collect don't bonsai well (sugar maples, sycamore, Eastern Red Cedar, Buckeye, etc) Then I discovered the hornbeam with the 'muscle' and the roots and that it actually works well as a bonsai. I will definitely figure this out! And your response helped a great deal. I have copied your comments for the tree I collect next year. I have my eye on one that is beautiful, but I didn't want to screw it up my first time out - so next year - after I fix this one - I'll give it a go again.

If you don't mind, I do have a follow up question on fertilizer. Your statement about waiting the first year makes good sense for the Hornbeam. Now I'm wondering about a Norway spruce that I had to dig up and put into a training pot yesterday. The deer had gotten to it, and my husband was going to get rid of it. It's one of the small container grown Christmas trees we planted 1 1/2 years ago. I have it potted, and based on your comments, I think I'm in pretty good shape, but I'm not sure on fertilizer. I used a 10-15-10 general purpose fertilizer yesterday just to give it something, but I'm guessing I need something specific to conifers. Any suggestions? Advice I found online is all over the place.

And, one more thing! I'm wondering what you do with your hornbeam during the winter.

Thank you again for your advice.
 

Tall Guy

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Any balanced fertilizer is going to be ok, the thing to remember about fertilizers is... it is better to under fertilize, than to over fertilize. Just read all the instructions, and follow the guidelines. A little will go a long ways. I use the liquid kinds that have the mixer you can attach to your hose... soaking the soil, foliage and all bout once a week. As for winter care, I put my trees on the ground and mulch up to the pot rims. Remember to keep watch on the trees drying out. Strong winter winds can dry pots quickly. Again, best of luck with your trees.
 
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