Age of Bonsai

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And then you cut the bonsai down for material to patch up the ship, Theseus is getting antsy
 

Potawatomi13

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...and most importantly, age is almost completely irrelevant when it comes to bonsai. It doesn't matter how old a tree is. What matters is how old a tree looks.

Any time I go to a bonsai exhibition and I see "ages" posted with trees, I wince. First, because in most cases it is only the roughest of guesses. Second, because the number is meaningless. If I say my tree is 50 years old versus 300 years old... how does that make a difference?
Personally 300 years gives tree venerability with all this entails, intrinsic value, genuine instead of "created" age in appearance, personal responsibility to treat tree with greatest care. 50 years=meh by comparison.
 

Potawatomi13

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In local club displayed trees have 2 numbers: Age of tree, years in training.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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In the end. Who cares about age. The older I get the less I want to think about it.
Yep. New people care about age of trees. The more “age” you have in bonsai, the less you care about actual age of trees, and instead, creating the illusion of age.
 

Bnana

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I do think it is interesting to know how long a tree has been in training. If I see a great bonsai and know it has been in training for >50 years I understand why the ramification etc. is much better than the thing I collected two years ago.
Giving these ages gives inside in how fast development can go in different species.

In the end it is interesting but not important. Ultimately it's about what you see, I agree with Brian that the illusion is more important.
 

Forsoothe!

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Both ages are on the show label everywhere I've been and only the non-bonsai viewers are amazed by the age of the tree. Insiders are more impressed by the years in training, by a lot.
 

rockm

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I think Age CAN be important in some instances. Actual age can't be replicated. Trees that are over (and this is an arbitrary number) 100, 200 or older have developed a character and traits that show their journey in a way humans can't replicate. The thick heavy bark, naturally weathered deadwood, expansive nebari that come with really old collected trees and trees that have been cultivated as bonsai for a very very long time have all those all markers that show the passage of natural time.

The Yamaki Pine at the National Arboretum has been grown as a bonsai for almost 400 years. That age shows, as it does in some collected North American trees in the collection.
 

Forsoothe!

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The age of the tree is important to bonsaiists when acquiring a tree and influences the price. After that, it's all about the training, like who and how long. Just being "old" impresses the uninitiated, and how well trained impresses bonsaiists.
 

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So, if take 100 year old rootstock and graft a scion of a 2 year old sapling to it, is the tree 100 years old, or 2, or brand new, or is it 102 years old?

If I cut my toe off when I'm 21 and put it in cryostorage, then come back when I'm 50 and reattach it, can I be 21 again?

The age of the tree is important to bonsaiists when acquiring a tree and influences the price. After that, it's all about the training, like who and how long. Just being "old" impresses the uninitiated, and how well trained impresses bonsaiists.
I'm impressed by age in bonsai because it ain't easy keeping a tree alive in a tiny pot, handed down for several generations.
The age is part of the story of the tree, and if we aren't interested in that story, why do we care about the tree at all?
 

MaciekA

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I too wince at the display of age next to a trees decription. What matters to me is appearance, and age is just a distracting thing.. It makes me wonder more about the methods of age verification than about the tree on display. Who the hell is counting and why does it matter? Why should it matter?
It's like displaying the age of a pearl necklace.

Until reading this thread I thought I was the only one scratching my head over the age labels. I think maybe the age labels have been partially responsible for people thinking that every apparently-old bonsai must be ancient, and that the craft of bonsai is mostly a matter of waiting for naturally-emergent bonsai properties as opposed to engaging in human-orchestrated construction.

Question though: What would even be a better way to convey (to the general public) the magnitude of / long arc of human effort that went into a given tree ? Maybe there's no good candidate, but when looking at some trees in Japan, I'd say my favorite candidate is depth of ramification. On the other hand, I'm with you, maybe the end result as seen standing there in front of you should be the most important thing.

(also, why would someone fabricate a static "age: 300 years" label instead of saying "born in 1721" ? this seems common)
 

ShadyStump

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(also, why would someone fabricate a static "age: 300 years" label instead of saying "born in 1721" ? this seems common)
Because the age is usually a very rough guess, so you can call a tree roughly 300 years old for 20 years if you want.
Unless, of course, there's some very detailed provenance on the planting, growing, digging, and shaping of the tree from day one. There are only a fistful of old trees in the world that have that. Again, why I do find age impressive sometimes.
 

penumbra

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I find all the different reactions very interesting. From its a cool thing to do to visceral reactions, I find myself walking the middle road. I don't in the least find it a distraction and at times I like the sense of history it imparts like a fine antique. I agree with most here that the years in training is more significant from a bonsai persons view, but what about a botanist?
 
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