Air Layer and Graft

[Pitoon]

Here's an experiment I wanted to try that is air layering and grafting the same tree at the same time.

Four normal green Japanese maples each with an air layer and each with a Shishigashira scion grafted on.

Will the air layer force the graft to take faster? Will the graft fail? Will the air layer fail? Will both be successful? ........let's see what happens in a month from now.

 

[fredman]

WoW that poor little trees has a lot to contemplate..wait, is that even the right word...never mind i'm on board

 

[Pitoon]

WoW that poor little trees has a lot to contemplate..wait, is that even the right word...never mind i'm on board

It's pushing them to their limits that's for sure. But it's worth a try to see what happens. Did you pull up that azalea from your yard yet?

 

[0soyoung]

Read your tarot cards @Pitoon.

This 'experiment' will not answer any questions.
It will just have an outcome.
That would be predictable, were your prior success/failure rates known.

 

[NOZZLE HEAD]

The hormone balance will be changed by the air layer above the graft, less auxins more cytokines at the graft point, and the inverse is not true, the graft will have no impact on the success of the air layer from a plant hormone (auxin-cytokinin) standpoint.

All the research I’ve read says that grafts are not hormone dependent.

P.S. you have a control group right? Graft only, and layer only? Naked tree?

 

[NOZZLE HEAD]

The hormone balance will be changed by the air layer above the graft, less auxins more cytokines at the graft point, and the inverse is not true, the graft will have no impact on the success of the air layer from a plant hormone (auxin-cytokinin) standpoint.

All the research I’ve read says that grafts are not hormone dependent.

P.S. you have a control group right? Graft only, and layer only? Naked tree?

Grafts probably are hormone dependent or something close.

Any prunus can be grafted to any prunus but no Malus can be grafted to any prunus, but then mistletoe effectively grafts (haustorium) itself to all the oaks, there has to be a mechanism there that is not understood.

 

[fredman]

Did you pull up that azalea from your yard yet?

Nope...they're still sleeping

 

[leatherback]

Grafts probably are hormone dependent or something close.
[...]
there has to be a mechanism there that is not understood.

The role of plant hormones during grafting

J Plant Res. 2018; 131(1): 49–58.
Published online 2017 Nov 27. doi: 10.1007/s10265-017-0994-5
PMCID: PMC5762790
PMID: 29181647

The role of plant hormones during grafting

For millennia, people have cut and joined different plant tissues together through a process known as grafting. By creating a chimeric organism, desirable properties from two plants combine to enhance disease resistance, abiotic stress tolerance, vigour ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[ConorDash]

The role of plant hormones during grafting

J Plant Res. 2018; 131(1): 49–58.
Published online 2017 Nov 27. doi: 10.1007/s10265-017-0994-5
PMCID: PMC5762790
PMID: 29181647

The role of plant hormones during grafting

For millennia, people have cut and joined different plant tissues together through a process known as grafting. By creating a chimeric organism, desirable properties from two plants combine to enhance disease resistance, abiotic stress tolerance, vigour ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thanks for link, I like a read like that...

 

[Shibui]

Any prunus can be grafted to any prunus but no Malus can be grafted to any prunus, but then mistletoe effectively grafts (haustorium) itself to all the oaks, there has to be a mechanism there that is not understood.

Some intergeneric grafts are possible. We use Myoporum species as rootstock for Eremophila down here. I believe Malus/ Pyrus grafts are also possible though there is some talk of delayed incompatability and I have not tried that combination.
There are probably a host of other intergeneric possibilities that have not yet been explored.

 

[Pitoon]

Read your tarot cards @Pitoon.

This 'experiment' will not answer any questions.
It will just have an outcome.
That would be predictable, were your prior success/failure rates known.

………..@0soyoung can you lend me your tarot cards, still waiting for mine to come in.

If one doesn't know the success/failure rates, one can't predict. This would be an experiment for myself as "I" have never done both procedures at the same time nor seen anyone perform it, have you?

Have you air layered or grafted a Japanese maple? If yes, what were your success rates? …....if you care to share.

 

[sorce]

I wouldn't leave em in the driveway, there's so much plastic around those things the UPS guy might take them!

Sorce

 

[Pitoon]

I wouldn't leave em in the driveway, there's so much plastic around those things the UPS guy might take them!

Sorce

LOL, I did the procedure late in the day and didn't want to take them out back.

I'm going to go for the conversion. Are you using a weed burner or an actual burner kit?

 

[sorce]

I'm only using am actual burner with a BASO, pilot and all, cuz it was lent to me.
I couldn't spend $50 on a weed burner when the one at Harbor Freight is $20 and I won't shop there.

There are many good homemade Venturi Burner plans.

Hella thumbs up!

If you remove any of the elements, save the wire for hanging beads and such. It also recycles for a higher price.

Sorce

 

[Pitoon]

I'm only using am actual burner with a BASO, pilot and all, cuz it was lent to me.
I couldn't spend $50 on a weed burner when the one at Harbor Freight is $20 and I won't shop there.

There are many good homemade Venturi Burner plans.

Hella thumbs up!

If you remove any of the elements, save the wire for hanging beads and such. It also recycles for a higher price.

Sorce

I bought a weed burner with the igniter from HF, it's actually not that bad. May use that for the time being and eventually upgrade to a kit.

 

[sorce]

I bought a weed burner with the igniter from HF, it's actually not that bad. May use that for the time being and eventually upgrade to a kit.

I doubt you'll need to switch. Simon Leach keeps like 4 of those on hand! He once fires too. No "bisque". So you should be able to go slow enough to not blow stuff up.
Weigh for dry, when they stop losing weight a couple days, you're good. But anything thicker than a half inch will still blow up from the chemically bound water. Sloooow.

Sorce

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Without replicated controls, of air layer only, or graft only, this is not an experiment. You will get anecdotal results only, of limited value.

I do support playing around, but it "ain't science" without controls.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I suspect the added stress of 2 procedures at once on each of the trees will likely lead to a high failure rate.

 

[Pitoon]

Without replicated controls, of air layer only, or graft only, this is not an experiment. You will get anecdotal results only, of limited value.

I do support playing around, but it "ain't science" without controls.

Exactly right not science, but more of playing around if it can be done successfully. I don't have issues with air layers, grafts, or cuttings....using the right plants and procedures. Doing this on one plant wouldn't tell me anything which was why I did it on four. It will give me some room to see what will happen. Worse case scenario is that I loose the air layering and graft. If the air layering's are successful I should be able to remove them within a month from now. I'll post updates then.

 

[Pitoon]

I doubt you'll need to switch. Simon Leach keeps like 4 of those on hand! He once fires too. No "bisque". So you should be able to go slow enough to not blow stuff up.
Weigh for dry, when they stop losing weight a couple days, you're good. But anything thicker than a half inch will still blow up from the chemically bound water. Sloooow.

Sorce

I've been following Simon since he was in Spain doing his Raku. He put up some videos showing his conversion, but I don't like how he has the flame entering the side. I prefer how Sebastian has his setup with the flame from the floor. Now need to search some shelves to make the flue. I may make a tutorial here if there's interest.