Air Layer- Sphagnum Staying really wet

drew33998

Masterpiece
Messages
2,033
Reaction score
1,286
Location
Jacksonville, Fl
USDA Zone
8-9
Ok Guys and Gals. I have a maple that I am air layering(Glowing Embers). I started the layer just as buds were swelling(early March). I used sphagnum moss, wrapped with plastic and taped top and bottom with the stretchy tape, sticky side out. I have a good bit of drainage holes poked in the bag but it seems the sphagnum is staying really really wet. About 4-5 weeks after the air layer was put in place I hadn't seen any roots at all, so I took the bag off to take a look at the cut site. The good thing is that I noticed a ton of cambium swelling and nodules, which I assume will be future roots. So I placed the bag back the way it was. My question is does your medium stay really wet? We have had a very very wet spring this year. Would this cause any ill effects on the tree trying to layer as well as any new roots that may emerge?

As and aside, I attempted air layering a live oak at the same time, and I think it isn't going to do anything. Anyone tried layering an oak? It was tuff to differentiate where the cambium was for me since the bark is so thick.
 

Poink88

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,968
Reaction score
119
Location
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
USDA Zone
8b
I use Turface mixed with 10% chopped sphagnum and use a slit nursery pot for my air layer. So far, worked every time. :)

Re: Live Oak, I wish I can find an owner who will let me air layer their tree. Bark area before the cambium is very different compared to the real "wood". If in doubt, you haven't reached the cambium/wood area yet. Swing a hatchet or machete at one site...you will see the difference. ;)
 

edprocoat

Masterpiece
Messages
3,423
Reaction score
378
Location
Ohio/Florida
USDA Zone
6
I use Turface mixed with 10% chopped sphagnum and use a slit nursery pot for my air layer. So far, worked every time. :)

Re: Live Oak, I wish I can find an owner who will let me air layer their tree. Bark area before the cambium is very different compared to the real "wood". If in doubt, you haven't reached the cambium/wood area yet. Swing a hatchet or machete at one site...you will see the difference. ;)

Thats a perfect mix for layers, that (10% sphagnum moss) works well with red lava chips or pumice too. I read where the sphagnum moss provides air in the mix, dont know how or if this works but I do see it turns green when wet a while.

ed
 

0soyoung

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,496
Reaction score
12,832
Location
Anacortes, WA (AHS heat zone 1)
USDA Zone
8b
Ok Guys and Gals. I have a maple that I am air layering(Glowing Embers). I started the layer just as buds were swelling(early March). I used sphagnum moss, wrapped with plastic and taped top and bottom with the stretchy tape, sticky side out. I have a good bit of drainage holes poked in the bag but it seems the sphagnum is staying really really wet. About 4-5 weeks after the air layer was put in place I hadn't seen any roots at all, so I took the bag off to take a look at the cut site. The good thing is that I noticed a ton of cambium swelling and nodules, which I assume will be future roots. So I placed the bag back the way it was. My question is does your medium stay really wet? We have had a very very wet spring this year. Would this cause any ill effects on the tree trying to layer as well as any new roots that may emerge?

As and aside, I attempted air layering a live oak at the same time, and I think it isn't going to do anything. Anyone tried layering an oak? It was tuff to differentiate where the cambium was for me since the bark is so thick.

First, wring out the sphagnum. Since you have no roots yet and have lots of holes in the plastic sheeting you covered it with, just squeeze. It should stay damp, but if it dries just add a little water - too wet is better than too dry, though.

Second, you will not get any root growth until after the foliage has hardened. It is the photosynthates and auxin from the foliage that drives the formation and growth of roots.

Lastly, cambium is always green, is between the bark and wood (xylem), and is where the bark usually separates from the xylem when you make a small cut and peel away the bark. It is especially easy when the tree is actively growing (i.e., sometime after new leafs emerge). Check the girdle you made. If there is callus on the top, you are probably ok. If not, do a little cutting, peeling, and scraping until you figure it out. Dust with some rooting hormone, bundle it up and you'll be good to go.
 

drew33998

Masterpiece
Messages
2,033
Reaction score
1,286
Location
Jacksonville, Fl
USDA Zone
8-9
First, wring out the sphagnum. Since you have no roots yet and have lots of holes in the plastic sheeting you covered it with, just squeeze. It should stay damp, but if it dries just add a little water - too wet is better than too dry, though.

Second, you will not get any root growth until after the foliage has hardened. It is the photosynthates and auxin from the foliage that drives the formation and growth of roots.

Lastly, cambium is always green, is between the bark and wood (xylem), and is where the bark usually separates from the xylem when you make a small cut and peel away the bark. It is especially easy when the tree is actively growing (i.e., sometime after new leafs emerge). Check the girdle you made. If there is callus on the top, you are probably ok. If not, do a little cutting, peeling, and scraping until you figure it out. Dust with some rooting hormone, bundle it up and you'll be good to go.

Thanks. Yes it budded out probably a week after I did the air layer. It has been in leaf and the new shoots have already hardened off. I know how to deduce where the cambium is on most trees but the live oak's wood was much harder to find that I thought it would be. I feel like I probably didn't go far enough like Dario said. I probably went in a good 3/8" on a 4" diameter branch until I was like, well damn, I guess I already passed it. Haha
 

Poink88

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,968
Reaction score
119
Location
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
USDA Zone
8b
Lastly, cambium is always green, is between the bark and wood (xylem), and is where the bark usually separates from the xylem when you make a small cut and peel away the bark.

Really? To be honest, I have never seen a green cambium and I have done many grafts. For me it is clear (maybe cloudy) film between the wood and bark.

Edit, maybe it is true for really young and small growth...not on something you airlayer.
 
Last edited:

cmeg1

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,345
Reaction score
8,220
Location
Southeast Pennsylvania USA
USDA Zone
7a
I have never grown oak,but can't you just forget where the cambium is and just scrape the sapwood almost to a pith comes from it?I mean that is good practice anyway so the layer does not bridge.Scrape with a razor
 

Poink88

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,968
Reaction score
119
Location
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
USDA Zone
8b
I have never grown oak,but can't you just forget where the cambium is and just scrape the sapwood almost to a pith comes from it?I mean that is good practice anyway so the layer does not bridge.Scrape with a razor

Bark is composed of dead and live part. Cambium is between the sapwood and the live bark. Sapwood is where xylem is...you do not want to damage that area more than superficially. Live bark is where the phloem is...you want to remove all these and the cambium which is just a thin layer/film of meristem.

I use a relatively dull knife to scrape and let it dry. When in a hurry, I wipe it with alcohol and the cambium should dry and die fast.

As I said, it is hard to miss once you hit the sapwood (esp on oak)...it is much harder than the live bark.
 

drew33998

Masterpiece
Messages
2,033
Reaction score
1,286
Location
Jacksonville, Fl
USDA Zone
8-9
Bark is composed of dead and live part. Cambium is between the sapwood and the live bark. Sapwood is where xylem is...you do not want to damage that area more than superficially. Live bark is where the phloem is...you want to remove all these and the cambium which is just a thin layer/film of meristem.

I use a relatively dull knife to scrape and let it dry. When in a hurry, I wipe it with alcohol and the cambium should dry and die fast.

As I said, it is hard to miss once you hit the sapwood (esp on oak)...it is much harder than the live bark.

Since I had seen no swelling of what I thought to be the cambium, I re-cut the wound and went deeper into the sap-wood. I also added some powdered rooting hormone to the cut site. I will check in 4-6 weeks to see if I have anything moving.

Also, No roots are showing on the maple yet. When I checked 2 weeks ago I noticed that the cambium was swelling and getting nodules, which I can only assume would be roots. I would have expected to see some roots growing down the sides of the bag already but I haven't. Either way it will be left until such a time that I see a good bit of roots. Then the bag will be removed and a container with 100% DE will be placed around the sphagnum until next spring, when I will remove it.
 
Messages
1,654
Reaction score
2,535
Location
Belgium
Too wet or too dry is never good. There are different ways. In wetter climates, it is often better to take a narrow ring sphagnum and surrounded by a draining mixture (akadama), the new roots begin in the wet zone, when they grow they come in the better micture, you get better (less fleshy) roots. Any micture will work if the moisture is good. Working with nursery pot like poink88 suggests makes it more easy to control.
 
Top Bottom