Air layer with shari?

[JackHammer]

I have a bunch of juniper bushed in my yard and several of them are quite old. One in particular has a shari mid trunk that I think would make a good bonsai. But, air layering could be difficult. Has anyone ever done air layering with a shari in the trunk? How did it go?

 

[ShadyStump]

I never have, but wanted to comment that this is a VERY interesting and special circumstance for layering of any sort. I'm not sure if you would need to get between the live vein and the shari to avoid a significant part of the new tree dying off, and/or just making more shari. I'm fairly new to the game, but I understand junipers are quite good at compartmentalizing their growth.

Can you get us some pics?

I'll speculate that, if it's close enough to the ground, ground layering may be a better idea. Junipers often essentially self ground layer routinely, so it might yield better results by following the tree's natural tendency as it were. Even if it works, building good nebari will be a long term project afterward.

 

[0soyoung]

shari, smari. It doesn't matter.

 

[Shibui]

You can layer a branch/trunk with dead wood. Only the live portion of the trunk can grow roots but it should do that just as well as a trunk without dead wood.

 

[Vali]

I am doing it. It's as easy as any other airlayer. You have less work to do. Maybe you should pay more attention to eliminate the cambium where the live and dead tissues meet. It will root normally

 

[JackHammer]

I never have, but wanted to comment that this is a VERY interesting and special circumstance for layering of any sort. I'm not sure if you would need to get between the live vein and the shari to avoid a significant part of the new tree dying off, and/or just making more shari. I'm fairly new to the game, but I understand junipers are quite good at compartmentalizing their growth.

Can you get us some pics?

I'll speculate that, if it's close enough to the ground, ground layering may be a better idea. Junipers often essentially self ground layer routinely, so it might yield better results by following the tree's natural tendency as it were. Even if it works, building good nebari will be a long term project afterward.

Yeah, that is the underlying question that I am trying to figure out.
The branch is maybe 5 feet off the ground and the shari is in the middle of the trunk.
Maybe I will need to cut the shari out so I can get to the living trunk.

I will work on some pictures, maybe tonight.

 

[River's Edge]

Yeah, that is the underlying question that I am trying to figure out.
The branch is maybe 5 feet off the ground and the shari is in the middle of the trunk.
Maybe I will need to cut the shari out so I can get to the living trunk.

I will work on some pictures, maybe tonight.

If you remove the deadwood, it is important to brace the tree for strength to replace the deadwood portion removed so the upper portion does not flop over and break during the process.

 

[JackHammer]

Here is the branch I was thinking of. It is about 3 inches across. It will need to be shaped and everything but I thought it would be a good start.

 

[Shibui]

You need to understand how trees work. The cambium layer just under the bark is the only area that grows. Cambium can change into wood, bark or roots depending on need and circumstance. The inner wood cannot grow and it cannot ever make roots. Even though it is not dry yet, inner wood is essentially like dead wood that has dried. It will never make roots, cannot make bark, etc. Only the cambium layer under living bark can do those things. For layering to create new roots you must focus on the cambium layer under the living parts. Dead sections are really irrelevant for the purposes of rooting, except when they physically get in the way of the rooting media or container you use to layer.
Later when you are designing your bonsai is the time to consider carving the dead sections to make an attractive shape.

Need to also consider other aspects of design and beauty. An ugly trunk with dead wood is still going to be ugly. There may be options to create taper or the illusion of taper in a trunk but that can be quite difficult, sometimes impossible with some specimens. Branching is important too. Some junipers will back bud and grafting is possible but all take years of time and effort. Need to consider the whole thing as future bonsai, not just that it has some dead wood.

 

[Atom#28]

Here is the branch I was thinking of. It is about 3 inches across. It will need to be shaped and everything but I thought it would be a good start.
View attachment 381143

What is it about this particular section that caught your eye? Where do you see this material going in terms of future design?

 

[ShadyStump]

@Shibui I believe the issue on @JackHammer's mind was does he need to separate the live vein from the dead wood in order to get all the way around the live vien? What sort of results/problems could he expect if he doesn't do that?

Looking at the pic, I'm not sure the air layer would root like you would normally expect if you can't separate them. It may just callus over never producing roots at all.

That said, junipers are known for rooting fairly easily, so it might just work.

 

[Shibui]

@Shibui I believe the issue on @JackHammer's mind was does he need to separate the live vein from the dead wood in order to get all the way around the live vien? What sort of results/problems could he expect if he doesn't do that?

Looking at the pic, I'm not sure the air layer would root like you would normally expect if you can't separate them. It may just callus over never producing roots at all.

Cambium is just under the bark. Separating living parts from dead parts will not make any difference to production of roots as roots will not grow from internal wood. Roots will still only grow on the outer edges of a live section that is separated from underlying wood so no gain that I can see and much more risk and work.
I know we see bonsai professionals separating live from dead but that is for design purposes - to be able to bend and manipulate the live section, not for the purpose of rooting.

There is no reason for cambium in living veins attached to dead wood to behave any differently from cambium that has no dead wood nearby.

shari, smari. It doesn't matter.

 

[JackHammer]

What is it about this particular section that caught your eye? Where do you see this material going in terms of future design?

Well... I think the built in shari is something that adds value. The branch structure is quite large (out of frame) and there are a lot of branches that could be used in this lower region. Putting the fork at a 45° to the right would give a few options for a semi-cascade. That is likely the styling direction I would take it.

 

[Vali]

I agree with Shibui. The layer I have done grew roots last year without me messing with the deadwood. The dead part of the trunk doesn't do anything. Just do what you have to do to the live wood and it will work. Don't overthink it, it's no use