Air-Layered with Chopped Sphagnum moss

[zanna5910]

Hi all, I'm a lurker and new to bonsai, really having fun reading about it and starting out!

I did two air layers on some nursery j. chinesis about a week ago. I realize I'm late in the season, but my real issue is I used Chopped Sphagnum moss instead of the long strands of moss. Chalk that one up to learning and rookie mistakes I guess.

Do you guys think this will be okay and the junipers will root in this chopped medium or do I need to pull them apart and change out the medium to the long stranded moss?

Thanks all for your help!

 

[sorce]

I always chop my Sphagnum fine so it is easier to get out.

As long as it is not peat, should be ok.

Sorce

 

[zanna5910]

I always chop my Sphagnum fine so it is easier to get out.

As long as it is not peat, should be ok.

Sorce

Maybe chopped was the wrong word. It more has the consistency that it has been run thru a blender. The bag says Organic Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss.

Do you think this is okay? I get the feeling I'm using the wrong thing.

 

[sorce]

Ouch peat.

It could work.

Maybe just redo one. This way you can learn a little more!

They say the long stranded Sphagnum has natural rooting hormones.

Juniper might not be the easiest to try it out on........so don't give up if it doesnt work.

Oh. Welcome to the Nuthouse.

Sorce

 

[Vance Wood]

Ouch peat.

It could work.

Maybe just redo one. This way you can learn a little more!

They say the long stranded Sphagnum has natural rooting hormones.

Juniper might not be the easiest to try it out on........so don't give up if it doesnt work.

Oh. Welcome to the Nuthouse.

Sorce

For future reference stay away from the product know as Canadian Peat, the dust from the stuff can be harmful to the lungs. It should work on the Juniper but if the cutting is large it could take two years to root. The cutting will tell you soon enough if it is not going to root.

 

[zanna5910]

The cutting will tell you soon enough if it is not going to root.

Its an air-layer, not a cutting if it makes any difference. If I leave it as is, when should I determine its not working and if it doesn't work, will I just kill the top or can I switch it out in the Spring with long moss?

 

[Vance Wood]

Its an air-layer, not a cutting if it makes any difference. If I leave it as is, when should I determine its not working and if it doesn't work, will I just kill the top or can I switch it out in the Spring with long moss?

I'm sorry you are correct but the results can be a little longer to reveal themselves.

 

[zanna5910]

Thanks guys.

In the interest of science and discovery I will leave these as is and do a follow up later this year with the results and see if we need to switch the medium.

 

[zanna5910]

as a follow up here, its now 10/7 and nothing. I dont see any roots in the layer bag.

What do you guys think I should do? Wait til Spring? Still green on top and bottom of layer...

 

[0soyoung]

Open up the bag and carefully lift the damp 'stuff' so that you can see the girdle. If you don't find any roots, examine all 360[sup]o[/sup] the girdle to make sure there is no bridging growth across the girdle. If there is bridging, remove that growth and wipe the exposed wood with a rag soaked with rubbing alcohol (70% isopropyl from the hardware store or pharmacy). Then make sure the 'stuff' is damp and rewrap the works in plastic.

Leave it for the winter - nothing much will happen. Next spring, make sure the 'stuff' you used is damp and then patiently watch for roots showing under the plastic later next seasn.

 

[zanna5910]

As a follow up, this little experiment was unsuccessful. I left these alone all winter and this spring the top half above the layer of one of the junipers browned off and died I guess. Will snap some pics tonight to figure out what was wrong (besides just the media used).

 

[zanna5910]

Here's some pics, you live and you learn I guess

 

[JoeR]

Eh my first air layer was a fail too but I tried again this year and both have roots so far. It may be too early to say it was a success, though.

Try again

 

[zanna5910]

Awesome, yea, I will definitely try again. I'm too stubborn to ever give up, lol. Having a blast learning and trying new things.

 

[zanna5910]

Here's a pic of the one that died. I opened the bag and went ahead and chopped the top. Looks like the top of the layer cut calloused up or something. Anyone know what I did wrong?

 

[0soyoung]

Here's a pic of the one that died. I opened the bag and went ahead and chopped the top. Looks like the top of the layer cut calloused up or something. Anyone know what I did wrong?
View attachment 73320

That gnarly callus is normal. It is the result of enhanced growth due to the accumulation of auxin at the top of the girdle. The older a plant gets, generally speaking, the less capable it is of forming roots. You likely did nothing wrong.

The fact that the branch you were trying to layer died tells you that it failed because the xylem (wood) got clogged. Usually this is because the cambium at the bottom of the girdle dies. When a branch is pruned, cambium cells at the cut die and signal the living cells in the wood to also die which results in sealing the xylem at the cut - normal damage response. It is interesting that this doesn't also happen immediately when a branch is girdled, but takes some time (months or seasons) to occur.

Do a little autopsy after you've pruned the dead layered branch from the tree. Usually the bark will be kinda punky at the bottom of the girdle. Lay back the bark and you ought to find a corresponding region where the wood is discolored (jammed/filled/sealed).

 

[Eric Group]

That gnarly callus is normal. It is the result of enhanced growth due to the accumulation of auxin at the top of the girdle. The older a plant gets, generally speaking, the less capable it is of forming roots. You likely did nothing wrong.

The fact that the branch you were trying to layer died tells you that it failed because the xylem (wood) got clogged. Usually this is because the cambium at the bottom of the girdle dies. When a branch is pruned, cambium cells at the cut die and signal the living cells in the wood to also die which results in sealing the xylem at the cut - normal damage response. It is interesting that this doesn't also happen immediately when a branch is girdled, but takes some time (months or seasons) to occur.

Do a little autopsy after you've pruned the dead layered branch from the tree. Usually the bark will be kinda punky at the bottom of the girdle. Lay back the bark and you ought to find a corresponding region where the wood is discolored (jammed/filled/sealed).

If you damage that layer, isn't that an indication you probably went too deep when girdling? I recently had issues with not going deep enough, and the trees would calloused and heal over, so this year I added a tight wire tied just below the top of the girdle. It is kind of combining two techniques, but gives you the best of both worlds I think- you get the fast reaction of the tree to immediately start making roots without having to wait for the wire to it in as it grows like you do if you just use the wire method, and you don't have to worry about it healing over which can be an issue with girdling, because the wire keeps it from doing that... Worked great on the first one I removed today!

 

[0soyoung]

If you damage that layer, isn't that an indication you probably went too deep when girdling?

It is clear from the pic in post #15 that the OP did not remove all the sap wood. In fact it is clear that little sap wood was removed.

... healing over which can be an issue with girdling

It is also clear from the pic that he did a good job of removing cambium and xylem initials from the girdle because there is no callus growth (i.e., regeneration of cambium, phloem, and epiderm) in the girdle.

 

[Eric Group]

It is clear from the pic in post #15 that the OP did not remove all the sap wood. In fact it is clear that little sap wood was removed.

It is also clear from the pic that he did a good job of removing cambium and xylem initials from the girdle because there is no callus growth (i.e., regeneration of cambium, phloem, and epiderm) in the girdle.

Is it?
The only thing clear from these pics is that everything that could go wrong DID go wrong. The wrong substrate was used which left a mucky film over the layer in the pic where it is exposed so I cannot see much of anything to indicate how deep he went, and the other pics just show that the layered branch died, so I honestly do not see how any of that is so clear from the pics posted. You must have that super bonsai X-Ray vision if that is all so clear from these pics! LOL