Airlayering a Douglas fir?

bonsaichile

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Can you airlayer a Douglas fir? How well do they take it? tourniquet method or not? Thanks!
 

plant_dr

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Give people a little time, they'll respond
 

wireme

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I think it’s unlikely that doug fir will be an good air layering candidate. I’ve never seen any sign of natural ground layering in the wild and in pots they don’t seem to readily generate new roots from trunk bases where roots don’t already exist. With a young tree the slow tourniquet method may work but I wouldn’t count on it.
 

River's Edge

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I think it’s unlikely that doug fir will be an good air layering candidate. I’ve never seen any sign of natural ground layering in the wild and in pots they don’t seem to readily generate new roots from trunk bases where roots don’t already exist. With a young tree the slow tourniquet method may work but I wouldn’t count on it.
I agree, they do not appear to be good candidates for air layering, but i have never tried it, nor heard of anyone attempting to airlayer a Douglas Fir. They are native to this area and grow throughout my acreage but i have not used them for Bonsai.
 

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With a young tree the slow tourniquet method may work but I wouldn’t count on it.
It killed the one with which I tried this (actually, the tourniquet was on the tap root, just below the root collar). I figure root grafting will be in the future IF any of my Dougies ever develops an interesting trunk (which reminds me, I haven't yet tried grafting them).
 

bonsaichile

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Thank you, guys! I collected one yesterday, a beautuful twin trunk, but once it was out of the crag it was growing in, we realized it was not only too high for a double trunk, but it also had reverse taper. It was already put, so I took it with me. If it survives, I might try to do some root grafts in a couple years, as @Osoyouung suggested.
 

Potawatomi13

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Thank you, guys! I collected one yesterday, a beautuful twin trunk, but once it was out of the crag it was growing in, we realized it was not only too high for a double trunk, but it also had reverse taper. It was already put, so I took it with me. If it survives, I might try to do some root grafts in a couple years, as @Osoyouung suggested.

Per Ryan Neils Live stream this week Rocky Mtn Doug Fir should not be messed with for 3 years after collection. Will be in archive to watch in few days;). Hope for survival. Can you supply photo(s)?
 

M. Frary

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Per Ryan Neils Live stream this week Rocky Mtn Doug Fir should not be messed with for 3 years after collection. Will be in archive to watch in few days;). Hope for survival. Can you supply photo(s)?
Shucks!
Missed another riveting episode.
 

RKatzin

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I have always thought Doug Fir would layer, at least here, here being anywhere west of the Cascades. There is a very strange occurrence, in terms of conifers, that only the Doug Fir will do. When cut off at the stump the stump will callous over and create what is known as a 'living stump'. I'm not sure how this happens, but it is a great amount of callousing.
I have also seen ground layered Doug Fir in old logging sites. It may be our milder winter climate allows this to happen in this area. Could be just the difference between Rocky Mt Doug Fir and Oregon Doug Fir?
 

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I have always thought Doug Fir would layer, at least here, here being anywhere west of the Cascades. There is a very strange occurrence, in terms of conifers, that only the Doug Fir will do. When cut off at the stump the stump will callous over and create what is known as a 'living stump'. I'm not sure how this happens, but it is a great amount of callousing.
I have also seen ground layered Doug Fir in old logging sites. It may be our milder winter climate allows this to happen in this area. Could be just the difference between Rocky Mt Doug Fir and Oregon Doug Fir?
Well, the best way to answer this question is to try a few. I have several volunteers growing on the acreage. They cropped up on a slope we cleared for a road down to the meadow. The time of year is about right for most air layering so i will give it a go. I have not used Douglas Fir for bonsai, just the Sub Alpine Fir.
The "living stumps " we see most often in this neck of the woods are the remains of old trees sprouting snowberry, Salal, and a variety of other trees and shrubs growing out of the stump. One of my easiest collections was a red cedar growing out of an old Douglas Fir stump left behind by loggers.
 

RKatzin

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I see those kind of old stumps around here, too. Very cool with the regenerative forest growing in the remaining husk of the old. No, these are trees that have been cut by loggers so they are flat tops and the top is completely calloused over. I'll get a couple of pics next time I'm out in the woods. I don't know how they stay alive, but I know if you sit on one in the summer you're likely to get a butt full of sap.
 

wireme

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Am I correct in my logical assumption that trees that callous well should air layer well?

I don’t know but I agree that dougies do callous well. I have a doug fir that I plan on removing a large branch off and that branch would be a great tree on its own. It’s very old and heavily barked, no loss to try layering I guess.
Lots of those living stumps here too, some just minutes walk away. Mostly western larch in my woods. I guess they are connected to other trees to stay alive, natural underground root grafts or maybe just mycorrhizal connections.
 

wireme

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I have always thought Doug Fir would layer, at least here, here being anywhere west of the Cascades. There is a very strange occurrence, in terms of conifers, that only the Doug Fir will do. When cut off at the stump the stump will callous over and create what is known as a 'living stump'. I'm not sure how this happens, but it is a great amount of callousing.
I have also seen ground layered Doug Fir in old logging sites. It may be our milder winter climate allows this to happen in this area. Could be just the difference between Rocky Mt Doug Fir and Oregon Doug Fir?

I found an old photo of one from just behind my house. Small western larch stump. The tree was probably cut down 20 years ago, the callous is still alive today and slowly growing. Others in the area are completely calloused over and closed up, pretty cool things B3F35E42-D587-4E72-B76B-0F4C18E78A90.jpeg
 
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River's Edge

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Am I correct in my logical assumption that trees that callous well should air layer well?
No idea about that assumption. Callussing is a step in root production so the thought seems logical. i do agree that after that period of time the stumps must be drawing from the underground network somehow. Easy to visualize that after seeing the connections during various collecting efforts, and the surprises one digs up that are not apparent on the surface.
 

River's Edge

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After reflection, i think this might be a good scenario to try the disc method of air layering. Poorer chance of great nebari to begin with but higher chance of long term success. Also because my subject trees are on a slope and less likely to get additional care.
Cut from either side and insert thin disc that will separate completely the bark,cambium and wood layers. Leaving a small bridge either side. This is a method reccomended for species that are considered more difficult to air layer or if they are expected to take longer than usual. So i will try one that way, and one where it is cut all the way around as per my usual.
 
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