Akadama turned to mush

[Scrogdor]

One of my trees that I bought in akadama mix appears to not be doing that well. Leaves are down/ curled in instead of open. The akadam appears to have turned to mush so I'm assuming it isn't breathing well. Is it better to try and adjust watering levels or carefully try and remove some of the akadama and chop stick in some better soil?

 

[Maiden69]

pictures would help people here give you better answers. There are but a few reasons whey akadama will turn to much in a zone 10,

like no top dressing (@Colorado mentioned that on my ficus thread)

I will offer one piece of unsolicited advice, since I believe you mentioned that you haven’t used akadama super extensively yet. I apologize in advance if I am mistaken about that. Anyway, I always use a top dressing with akadama. I consider it a mandatory part of the system if you’re going to use akadama. I think a big reason that people have problems with akadama breaking down prematurely is because of no top dressing. This allows water and perhaps UV rays (?) to break down the akadama on the surface.

Or watering too hard (like with a garden hose). Akadama is a soft particle, and while that is one of its benefit is also its nemesis.

 

[hemmy]

I agree with above and also take a chopstick and scrape at the top to see if the particles underneath are intact. Then add fresh substrate on top.

Is it draining? I don’t think I’ve done this, but here is Jonas describing making holes and backfilling for drainage when repot is not possible.

Improving drainage in a compacted rootball - Bonsai Tonight

How-to steps for correcting compacted soil discovered during repotting. The sample tree is an informal upright procumbens juniper bonsai.

bonsaitonight.com

It is staying too wet from rain? (Doubtful if you are in Oakland) Then tip the container to allow the perched water table to drop lower.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

One of my trees that I bought in akadama mix appears to not be doing that well. Leaves are down/ curled in instead of open. The akadam appears to have turned to mush so I'm assuming it isn't breathing well. Is it better to try and adjust watering levels or carefully try and remove some of the akadama and chop stick in some better soil?

….species type and photos are normally posted to illustrate the issue? Can you please post these…otherwise no clue what the issue actually is. Additional helpful information would be last repotting and location where the tree came from if it was purchased this year.

Surface akadama often breaks down on the surface over time due to normal weathering. (Improper chopsticking is also a common reason for rookies).

If this is an actual drainage issue, shown by lack of proper drainage, and not root rot, which this description smacks of, do soji as @hemmy suggested. Usually going down to 1/4-1;2” and removing the media will do the job.
cheers
DSD sends

 

[pandacular]

I think a soji makes sense if you don't feel that a repot is wise (and without knowing the species, I'd say it unlikely is).

Some resources on soji

Seasonal work!

More early spring work. I’m not a purist - some scars I want to keep and some I don’t. I like to scar the callous tissue of the wounds I want to heal. First, I remove the old wound covering. Then I apply cut paste to the wound and then cover the wound.

www.bonsainut.com

Summer Soji - Bonsai Tonight

Summer is not the most interesting time of year in the bonsai calendar. The trees rarely look their best, and it's too hot for them to grow much. They do,

bonsaitonight.com

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Dunno the jury is still out on a drainage issue without more data imho

it is a drainage issue instead of poking holes our general practice is to drill the rootball. It does far less damage than digging holes.

Results observed over the past four years have been remarkable.

Drilling Rootball Process.
- Measure depth of pot
- take a 1/8-3/16” dia ‘long’ drill bit
put tape around the bit up from point of drill at a distance 1/8” less then inside depth of pot. This prevents drilling into pot.
- sector off the pot into 4-8 sectors. Bigger pot more sectors
- Drill gently, letting the drill find it way down into rootball at about 20+ degree angle around nebari.
-put akadama into top of each hole.

This whole process soji-drill will get most trees through summer until spring repotting season

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Scrogdor]

pictures would help people here give you better answers. There are but a few reasons whey akadama will turn to much in a zone 10,

like no top dressing (@Colorado mentioned that on my ficus thread)


Or watering too hard (like with a garden hose). Akadama is a soft particle, and while that is one of its benefit is also its nemesis.

We had record rainfall this year in California, 4-5 months of non-stop rain storms over the winter.
It’s a Korean Hornbeam. Here are some pictures. The leaves are open lower on the tree, just not high up. Although it is still pushing growth even with the leaves looking like this.

 

[yenling83]

Akadama break down is quite normal and in many ways a good thing over time, as it scales with your roots. I definitely would not try and replace soil at this time of year personally-esp if it's really hot like it usually is in many parts of the bay. I'd make sure the tree was under shade cloth and ensure that the root ball is really getting saturated. I'd make several passes with the watering wand, I may even add duct tape or plastic along the rim of the pot so water sits on top of the soil and has time to penetrate the heart of that root ball. I'd def wait until Jan-March in CA to repot. If you try and replace soil now, you'll likely do more harm than good in damaging roots.


The funky leaves could be a fungal issue, sun burn or a watering issue-hard to tell esp from a small pic. You'll want a balance of water and oxygen, meaning water the tree and ensure water is really penetrating the entire root ball, but then also letting it dry properly and to the correct moisture content before watering again. Often when repotting Korean Hornbeam, we won't full bare root, Ryan Neil would classify these as a Sheen Based Deciduous. I love Korean Hornbeams! Hope this one continues to grow well for you, they generally do well in the Bay! Jonas won a PBE award with one last year and lives in Alameda.

 

[Scrogdor]

Akadama break down is quite normal and in many ways a good thing over time, as it scales with your roots. I definitely would not try and replace soil at this time of year personally-esp if it's really hot like it usually is in many parts of the bay. I'd make sure the tree was under shade cloth and ensure that the root ball is really getting saturated. I'd make several passes with the watering wand, I may even add duct tape or plastic along the rim of the pot so water sits on top of the soil and has time to penetrate the heart of that root ball. I'd def wait until Jan-March in CA to repot. If you try and replace soil now, you'll likely do more harm than good in damaging roots.


The funky leaves could be a fungal issue, sun burn or a watering issue-hard to tell esp from a small pic. You'll want a balance of water and oxygen, meaning water the tree and ensure water is really penetrating the entire root ball, but then also letting it dry properly and to the correct moisture content before watering again. Often when repotting Korean Hornbeam, we won't full bare root, Ryan Neil would classify these as a Sheen Based Deciduous. I love Korean Hornbeams! Hope this one continues to grow well for you, they generally do well in the Bay! Jonas won a PBE award with one last year and lives in Alameda.

Yeah I really love them, I have 4 now. They never have any issues generally.

 

[Ruddigger]

Not all Akadama is equal. There is soft (not high fired) akadama being sold out there by people who cant get the good stuff. If you bought the tree with that soil, who knows what you actually have.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Definitely looks like a water issue. Looks like the tree is pulling lots of water right now but the evapotranspiration is higher… resulting in this situation

In these cases we first put the whole pot in water for a couple - four hours. It should help the tree recover. Then follow @yenling83 great advice.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Maiden69]

Not all Akadama is equal. There is soft (not high fired) akadama being sold out there by people who cant get the good stuff. If you bought the tree with that soil, who knows what you actually have.

High-fired akadama loses the benefit we were looking for. It pretty much turns into nice sized turface. Any of the akadama brands that Jonas sells are legit, I try to get DRL as much as I can; lately, he's been the one with the best prices. He also use to sell high-fired akadama, I just looked and he no longer has it available and he explained the difference. Ryan has touched on this subject, also Walter, and he dislikes akadama. Search for the Sakadama thread here, lots of info there as well. I think the consensus was that any akadama fired at higher than 300 C will begin to harden to the point of losing its effectiveness. It will still hold the CeC exchange but it won't break down and scale with the roots anymore.

We had record rainfall this year in California, 4-5 months of non-stop rain storms over the winter.
It’s a Korean Hornbeam. Here are some pictures. The leaves are open lower on the tree, just not high up. Although it is still pushing growth even with the leaves looking like this.

Definitely use some sort of topsoil cover. Shredded sphagnum moss would be ok, but just a thin layer enough to protect the substrate and allow it to stay together.

 

[Ruddigger]

I’m sure theres a point where it becomes an issue, but my point was, it should be fired. There are some brands that sell sun dried. A local business here ported a bunch of that stuff once when they couldnt get the good stuff, and it all turns to oatmeal in the pot.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Pretty sure we can not attribute this issue to media. Akadama does not repel water if properly saturated, no matter the size particles. A harder layer on top, slowing percolate or root bound maybe… but not the tiny particles.

btw I just returned home after a week trip and found an excellent large scale example to illustrate a tree evapotranspiring beyond its water supply. These photos are of a zelkova I’ve been growing out for five years in successively larger pots.

This zelkova is in the first stage of top down repotting

The media is a free flowing APL+. (1:2:1+BC) on top and bottom (1/2 total media) with a layer in the middle = 1/2 of the total media in peat/pumice. Multiple holes were drilled through the peat/pumice.


It’s been middle 80F all week, two solid waterings each days. Each time it’s been double watered l, with 5-10 mins between watering to saturation.



Note inner leaves and the top, or fastest growing part of the tree, tends to wilt first similar to OP..



(The tree is normally on a concrete slab in part shade. It’s now being moved to the grass and clustered with some four redwoods in similar pots for this month in hopes of easing the water loss.)



Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Scrogdor]

Still not so sure. I soaked it for a couple hours after this post. I lifted it out of the pot and the roots at the bottom of the pot appear to be fine, no signs of root rot or anything. There was actually significant amounts of the white webbed fungus all around the sides/ bottom of the soil. I am Concerned about the slightly red edges with dark spots and some of the inner leaf is turning yellow. The tree is still actively pushing growth everywhere.

I’ll add that this tree does get sun from about 8 am to 5pm. So it should be be lack of sun.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Still seems within normal boundaries to me. These photos show a tree that has gotten a bit more crispy than mine.

That said, our tree is already pulling nutrients out of the leaves since the last heat spell …due and too much foliage vs roots imbalance… pushing the foliage towards fall colors/abscission. We are watering this guys” a lot right nice.

Here are some images from today.


That’s what it looks like in the images of your tree besides the crispy edges..

Likely will top our tree this fall.

Anyways just my thoughts.

Best
DSD sends