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Vance Wood

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View attachment 187341
Vance, thank you for taking the time to respond. When I repot, I will use sifted pine multch and sifted red horticultural lava. I also have pumice if you think it could benefit.

I have watched your videos on cutting the needles. Is it ok to do this now? Or should I wait until july? Should I trim a certain percentage of needles( ie 30%?) at 6 0’clock? Or cut all of the branches needles at 6?

Thank you for your time.
Cut all the needles and 6 O' clock. You can do this now. This will help encourage back budding by allowing light to enter the interior of the tree. Latter in the year around July you can cut all the needles at 12 O' clock leaving needles at 3 and 9 intact, making your clock face looking like a bow tie.
 

MrWunderful

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Alot of this growth is pretty tightly ramified with 1-2 year shoots. Should I cut some of these guys off first, before needle pruning at 6 o’clock?

Also, is it safe to cut the really long 3-4 year needles? Im not plucking them hopefully for buds to push, But they seem like they block out a lot of light.
 

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Bonsai901

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Vance Wood

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Alot of this growth is pretty tightly ramified with 1-2 year shoots. Should I cut some of these guys off first, before needle pruning at 6 o’clock?

Also, is it safe to cut the really long 3-4 year needles? Im not plucking them hopefully for buds to push, But they seem like they block out a lot of light.
You need to go after the needles as described. You also have a lot of little shoots growing at the base of the larger branches; many of those could be eliminated but be careful.
 

Vance Wood

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So I finally remembered to snap some new pics last week, and then finally remembered to post them today...getting old sucks.





20180410_191034.jpg20180410_191034.jpg
I am going to address this tree from this image which is the first one and from what I can see should be your front. If this was my tree and I wish it was, I would remove the branch on the right leaving a two inch stub. You understand from what you can see here in this shot is the formation of a trident, and you will remove the right fort of the trident. That leaves you with a fork and the larger of the two tines has a pleasant curve to it making for a nice continuation of the trunk.

Once we have come to this point the question is what do we do next. The honest answer is I don't know for sure but I am sure about this first move. That's the way I do Mugos, one step at a time. I am thinking that the left fork my be taken as well but not right now because of sap withdrawal. You have three branches above the cut on the major branch that can be trained up with wire into a continuation of the apex and two side branches. You let all of this develop for a year or two and you will start having a decent bonsai. This is where you have to start considering needle removal and bud removal to get back budding. After looking again at all the images it really boils down to getting rid of the thick and straight limb/branch you see here.20180410_191034.jpg
 

Bonsai901

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I am going to address this tree from this image which is the first one and from what I can see should be your front. If this was my tree and I wish it was, I would remove the branch on the right leaving a two inch stub. You understand from what you can see here in this shot is the formation of a trident, and you will remove the right fort of the trident. That leaves you with a fork and the larger of the two tines has a pleasant curve to it making for a nice continuation of the trunk.

Once we have come to this point the question is what do we do next. The honest answer is I don't know for sure but I am sure about this first move. That's the way I do Mugos, one step at a time. I am thinking that the left fork my be taken as well but not right now because of sap withdrawal. You have three branches above the cut on the major branch that can be trained up with wire into a continuation of the apex and two side branches. You let all of this develop for a year or two and you will start having a decent bonsai. This is where you have to start considering needle removal and bud removal to get back budding. After looking again at all the images it really boils down to getting rid of the thick and straight limb/branch you see here.View attachment 187389
Thank you Vance. I was thinking along the same line and I will follow your wisdom and post pics when I can get it on the work table.
 

MrWunderful

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You need to go after the needles as described. You also have a lot of little shoots growing at the base of the larger branches; many of those could be eliminated but be careful.

I did as you said, and it opened quite a bit. (Didnt cut any new growth, just needles at 6) You can actually see some form inside now. I will post a pic tomorrow.

Can you elaborate on the “coarse sand” you use? Is it similar to the “grit” people use?
 

Vance Wood

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I did as you said, and it opened quite a bit. (Didnt cut any new growth, just needles at 6) You can actually see some form inside now. I will post a pic tomorrow.

Can you elaborate on the “coarse sand” you use? Is it similar to the “grit” people use?
I prefer #2 or #3 swimming pool filter sand or sand blasting sand. It is a quartz type sand. I have had good luck with builders sand. Some people use decomposed granit or chicken grit. This stuff decomposes and is not as stable as the afore mentioned. Good luck on finding this stuff.
 

Japonicus

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My lil guy is awakening from Winters grip. Starting soil cleanup of old needles and left over mulch.
Many more needles to remove, but most still too intact and pulls buds off too.

I did a lot of needle thinning over the last 2 years, as well as candle pinching back to ~3/16 - 1/4" long.
So this years candles grow freely, but...

...I have a plethora of back buds and a lot of Spring selection to do. 3 pics attached

@Vance Wood how much bud removal would you recommend?
To have this many new buds in a 1/2" length of branch is not healthy if left unchecked. It's just not where I would, that they would be.
DSC_2014.JPG DSC_2017.JPG
When?DSC_2016.JPG
 

Vance Wood

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Personally I would not remove anything from it now, I would wait till every thing is starting to really cook. Then I would start removing some of the growth that is all piled together in one spot leave only three of them in one place. You have gotten some impressive back budding.
 

Japonicus

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Personally I would not remove anything from it now, I would wait till every thing is starting to really cook. Then I would start removing some of the growth that is all piled together in one spot leave only three of them in one place. You have gotten some impressive back budding.
Thanks Vance! Yes, good vigor cook out solar pads. Gain strength, from last years pinch, needle removal and pruning. Then sever ties that bind.
Makes sense. I will revisit when it gets concerningly heavy with needles and can't breathe well. Wish I could repot this year. The soil takes longer than expected to dry now.
 

Vance Wood

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Thanks Vance! Yes, good vigor cook out solar pads. Gain strength, from last years pinch, needle removal and pruning. Then sever ties that bind.
Makes sense. I will revisit when it gets concerningly heavy with needles and can't breathe well. Wish I could repot this year. The soil takes longer than expected to dry now.
I would love to see a photo of this guy once the needles start to open. I think you will be amazed at ho good this tree is going to look.
 

Japonicus

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I would love to see a photo of this guy once the needles start to open. I think you will be amazed at ho good this tree is going to look.
I certainly hope so. Indeed you will see it. What's amazing is the only info I've had until I joined BN on Mugo
was an article I bookmarked from Bonsai4me and your videos on youtube I came across maybe a year or 2 ago.
Then a book on Pines both WP and BP, from which I applied candle pinching and needle thinning techniques.
Your influence is cherished.
 

Steve C

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EuY8q0.jpg


Well the Mugo train made a stop in Clarksville today. Stopped at Meijers while out today and saw these little mugos for $8.99 so had to grab me one to butcher this year lol
 

M. Frary

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EuY8q0.jpg


Well the Mugo train made a stop in Clarksville today. Stopped at Meijers while out today and saw these little mugos for $8.99 so had to grab me one to butcher this year lol
If you can come to the show this year bring it.
Let Vance have a look in person.
 

Japonicus

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Well the Mugo train made a stop in Clarksville today. Stopped at Meijers while out today and saw these little mugos for $8.99 so had to grab me one to butcher this year lol
9 what!? That's highway robbery. Around here that'd be at least $30 probably more.
Nice find Steve C :) LOVE the trunks...
 
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Steve C

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Yeah I'm thinking about going back and maybe grabbing one or two more. I thought that was a pretty good price.

Mike we'll for sure make the show again this year. Mark & I both have been planning on joining the club this year but just haven't got around to doing that yet.
 

M. Frary

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Yeah I'm thinking about going back and maybe grabbing one or two more. I thought that was a pretty good price.

Mike we'll for sure make the show again this year. Mark & I both have been planning on joining the club this year but just haven't got around to doing that yet.
I pay my dues the same day as the show.
I'm the Vances big friend from up north/fringe member.
It's the only time I go to any club function.
Can't wait to see you and Mark again.
 

parhamr

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@parhamr @RKatzin any mugos in pure OrePumice out there?
My four Mugo are in a Boon mix variant with some added pine bark. This year I need to repot at least two of them, so I’ll soon have some juicy root photos.

The healthiest is ready to go into fully inorganic media.
 

Hyn Patty

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Ok, not sure where to post this but this seems appropriate with so many commenting here on Mugo's. This is my little 'Not a Contest' tree I've posted elsewhere and is my first pine of any kind that I am attempting to make into a bonsai. I have been reading Vance's notes but I'm not sure I understand everything and I have already made several mistakes. I pulled off needles along the inside branches instead of cutting them (bad me, I won't do that again), I also pinched candles back too early and mistook flowers/catkins for more emerging candles. So now I see the wisdom in waiting until summer to do that pinching. I know this needs to be repotted but I'm in the process of moving so it's not going to happen before summer - and that seems to be the advice on when I should work with the roots anyway, and not to bare root it when I do.

You can see that I did damage some of the needles when I wired and pruned initially. I'll need to be more careful next time when I rewire with copper later. I'm aiming for a twin trunk design here that will be semi-cascade on one side and dominant apex on the higher side. I probably should thin out some of the branches but I hadn't decided which ones yet. The last photo shows two back buds elongating but I can't take credit for them as they were tiny buds already there when I picked this up at the end of March. Should I go ahead and cut back that branch to those two back buds or wait to see if I can get more back budding elsewhere first?

The entire Mugo 'Teeny' is only 4 inches tall by 6 inches wide. It is still in it's original nursery pot. Advice is very welcome. I don't want to kill it as I really adore this little treasure. Eventually I would like to plant it over or on a rock to elevate the entire structure above the pot line and possibly tip the tree slightly. I haven't had time to work up sketches yet but I will post them later to my 'Not a Contest' tree post. I hope it's all right to post this tree here - I'm trying not to double post, so I won't post these photos to my other thread. I just didn't get much advice over there yet and I know I'm going to need some help so I don't screw it up.
 

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