All aboard the Mugo train!

Messages
295
Likes
259
Location
NC mountains
USDA Zone
6
Ok, not sure where to post this but this seems appropriate with so many commenting here on Mugo's. This is my little 'Not a Contest' tree I've posted elsewhere and is my first pine of any kind that I am attempting to make into a bonsai. I have been reading Vance's notes but I'm not sure I understand everything and I have already made several mistakes. I pulled off needles along the inside branches instead of cutting them (bad me, I won't do that again), I also pinched candles back too early and mistook flowers/catkins for more emerging candles. So now I see the wisdom in waiting until summer to do that pinching. I know this needs to be repotted but I'm in the process of moving so it's not going to happen before summer - and that seems to be the advice on when I should work with the roots anyway, and not to bare root it when I do.

You can see that I did damage some of the needles when I wired and pruned initially. I'll need to be more careful next time when I rewire with copper later. I'm aiming for a twin trunk design here that will be semi-cascade on one side and dominant apex on the higher side. I probably should thin out some of the branches but I hadn't decided which ones yet. The last photo shows two back buds elongating but I can't take credit for them as they were tiny buds already there when I picked this up at the end of March. Should I go ahead and cut back that branch to those two back buds or wait to see if I can get more back budding elsewhere first?

The entire Mugo 'Teeny' is only 4 inches tall by 6 inches wide. It is still in it's original nursery pot. Advice is very welcome. I don't want to kill it as I really adore this little treasure. Eventually I would like to plant it over or on a rock to elevate the entire structure above the pot line and possibly tip the tree slightly. I haven't had time to work up sketches yet but I will post them later to my 'Not a Contest' tree post. I hope it's all right to post this tree here - I'm trying not to double post, so I won't post these photos to my other thread. I just didn't get much advice over there yet and I know I'm going to need some help so I don't screw it up.
 

Attachments

W3rk

Yamadori
Messages
96
Likes
82
Location
MD
USDA Zone
7a
Got my boarding pass for the Mugo Train. This is a Dwarf Mugo / Pumilio - it's one of the very first pieces of nursery stock that I bought at the end of last summer when I decided to try bonsai. I've done very little work to it so far. Removed a couple of small/minor branches, worked off a bit of the topsoil to see what I could find for a trunk and slip potted it. It's obviously got a twin trunk and I've pulled down/guy wired the smaller trunk/branch all the way down. I did this mostly to open up the middle to get more light in, but also to see if I might want to lose the 2nd trunk or if I could do something like cascade with it.

But I think the best potential is in the main trunk and some of the motion to the left in this picture. It's also survived the winter nicely and is really pushing new candles now.
IMG_20180420_160013605.jpg
 
Messages
438
Likes
241
Location
Western West Virginia
USDA Zone
6a
The last photo shows two back buds elongating but I can't take credit for them as they were tiny buds already there when I picked this up at the end of March. Should I go ahead and cut back that branch to those two back buds or wait to see if I can get more back budding elsewhere first?
No, I would wait till next Fall to prune, however Vance may have other ideas, but given the size, and the fact you want to repot this Summer, no.
Keep the strength these branches offer, and check Vance for ideas on thinning out.
If you'll notice, there's a conspicuous bud semi latent in the left branch to the left of the back buds you're referring to.
Be careful when cutting this wire off not to damage that bud. Be careful when rewiring, not to scrape it or cover it either, because...
it is in line with the ones that are popped out on the right branch. That bud probably will elongate and get thinned eventually, but I bet there's one on the
opposite side of it. These are where your tertiary branches will be and create the fanned out look. There's actually more buds that will form there once pruned next Fall...
the following Spring, but you want to have the branches strong, the tree strong, and like popcorn, you'll get buds pop up there. One problem there though...
you've already removed the needles around this area you're wanting backbends to form. I can count maybe 5 or 6 latent buds there now, most nestled in the base of the needles.
The needles. If you don't want buds there, remove the needles. Keep the needles, where you want buds. Feed. That bud on the adjacent branch still may pop, and given the fact
that the needles are gone, you might want to prune that branch 1/2-3/4" above that bud THIS Falll. I don't know. This will look great with a lot of time.
If you don't anneal your own copper wire > https://www.hollowcreekbonsai.com/ecommerce/tools/bonsai-copper-training-wire.rhtml
 
Last edited:
Messages
10
Likes
10
I have two mugos both with what appears to be V graft scars in the trunk. I don’t remember what type I bought but I may have to reconsider my efforts if in fact they are grafted. Any thoughts?
DCA821E4-F283-4561-8659-7B47966BD714.jpeg

5BED8968-55E8-4E0A-B2FC-74812EA671C1.jpeg
 
Messages
15
Likes
4
Location
UK
USDA Zone
9a
Hi all,

I'm new here and could do with some advice.
I've been gifted a mugo (At least that's what he said it is) from a friend who is moving so wanted rid of some projects he had.

The thing is, I'm pretty new to bonsai (less than 2 years) and it is my first pine!
Here it is:
20180424_184333.jpg 20180424_184404.jpg 20180424_184419.jpg 20180424_184427.jpg 20180424_184439.jpg

This is as I was given it and I'm not to sure what to do if anything, this year.
I've done a lot of research over the last few weeks since receiving the tree and have learnt a lot. By biggest concern is that knuckle! It needs to go. The question is when. Next spring or summer?
I like the trunk line up until that Knuckle so my thought would be to try and encourage some budding below it (there are only a few needles however) in the hope of removing it and growing the trunk back in the opposite direction.

The little guy is about 45cm tall and the trunk is roughly 32cm at the base. It seems pretty healthy to me but what do I know!

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
19,161
Likes
24,294
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Repotted last summer, bare rooted and tizortured...into year 2 well.
20180502_164612.jpg

New this year... @Sebastian1 this is one I will leave in the pot and VERY slowly and cautiously cut circling or "Bloodoodoodoodoo" roots.
@CodeMonkey also a representation of why you shouldn't cut off your top yet. I won't have enough foliage to regenerate roots well enough to repot this for another 3-8 yearsish. 20180502_164602.jpg


Pugo Mine
20180502_164542.jpg

Destined for a literati...this was new and hacked last year to prevent problems....I'll repot it this year...and may thin it in fall.
20180502_164504.jpg

This is my "Classic Vance" style Mugo.
New last year and pruned to a "start", I'm repotting this this summer too...
20180502_164501.jpg

Sorce
 
Messages
925
Likes
1,599
Location
SE Michigan
USDA Zone
6a


I'm not going to do much work to this one I just bought today, but I did want to get it repotted and trimmed a bit off the roots. Two things I noticed. #1 I have never seen such a tangled root ball in my life :eek: The roots were spiraled around the trunk like crazy. and #2...after untangling the roots and digging down to find the base of the trunk, it actually has a pretty darn nice little trunk with a nice natural lean to it I think.
 
Messages
12,001
Likes
12,015
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5-6
I certainly hope so. Indeed you will see it. What's amazing is the only info I've had until I joined BN on Mugo
was an article I bookmarked from Bonsai4me and your videos on youtube I came across maybe a year or 2 ago.
Then a book on Pines both WP and BP, from which I applied candle pinching and needle thinning techniques.
Your influence is cherished.
Most of the Bonsai4me information was ripped off from an article I published years ago on this site and on a couple of places in Europe, with permission.
 
Messages
12,001
Likes
12,015
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5-6


I'm not going to do much work to this one I just bought today, but I did want to get it repotted and trimmed a bit off the roots. Two things I noticed. #1 I have never seen such a tangled root ball in my life :eek: The roots were spiraled around the trunk like crazy. and #2...after untangling the roots and digging down to find the base of the trunk, it actually has a pretty darn nice little trunk with a nice natural lean to it I think.
As much as you disturbed the root mass if I understand your text is pretty extensive, it is possible if nor desireable to cut some of the branches to balance the energy.
 
Messages
925
Likes
1,599
Location
SE Michigan
USDA Zone
6a
I can cut some of the smaller branches off that I know I won't be using. I actually didn't cut a whole lot of the roots (maybe 20% reduction) as I mostly just untangled them. They were wound around the trunk pretty good so I mostly just unknotted them and and put it back into a pot that is about the same size.
 
Messages
438
Likes
241
Location
Western West Virginia
USDA Zone
6a
Are Mugho pine tolerant of copper based fungicide sprays?
I noticed some strange marks/spots or banding on my needles post 2750 when I posted it
but wasn't mentioned. Now I'm ready to spray...
 
Messages
438
Likes
241
Location
Western West Virginia
USDA Zone
6a
I have Phyton27 (copper sulphate pentahydrate 21+% and copper metallic 5.5%)
but it does not list any pines on the target list. Also need to spray my BP's and WP's...any advice?
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
19,161
Likes
24,294
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
An update of today.

The most severely hacked new acq. 20180512_081523.jpg
Note it is desperately attempting to produce foliage to sustain itself, this will likely lead to curly juvenile or "confused" foliage.

As compared to the other new acq.
Which had the half dead roots from the green balls nitrogen blast. A little grey. 20180512_081537.jpg

Pugo mine. 20180512_081602.jpg

And last years 2 still in black pots.
20180512_081618.jpg
20180512_081624.jpg

Choo Choo!

Sorce
 
Messages
10
Likes
3
Location
Sweden
USDA Zone
8
Looking very nice Sorce!

So do you usually prune mugos at this time of year? I thought all work should be done in mid summer so I have left mine alone and the plan is to repot, prune and wire at the same time in July. Would you recommend I prune now instead?
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
19,161
Likes
24,294
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Looking very nice Sorce!

So do you usually prune mugos at this time of year? I thought all work should be done in mid summer so I have left mine alone and the plan is to repot, prune and wire at the same time in July. Would you recommend I prune now instead?
I'm just testing some theories this year...
Found my cut back limit! Looking to see what a heavy dormant spring pruning will do.

I don't know that I would prune yours as well as wire and repot this summer.
I know it's possible, but the absolutely necessary part evades me.....

I've only been successful with the Pugo Mine repot, which was safe, proper, not wired and only slightly pruned that year.

And one unpictured that was manhandled and forced into a basket. It shouldn't have lived. Had half its Nursery foliage.

The other manhandled one died.

"Pine strength is in their roots"...Ryan Neil..
But he also talks about Scots (Mugo blah same, pine) as being a complete system...
This part helps this part which feeds this and this then grows roots...etc....

So leaving them with enough foliage to regrow roots is still important.

With Juniper....I feel the less healthy...the more foliage needed for repot....

Where with pine....health level determines what % of top and bottom can be equally removed .....balanced.

So if yours is 100% healthy.
Minus an appropriate % for wiring....
Putting you at 50-75% health.
And do a balanced repot accordingly.

But if the roots need a lot of moving or removing.....skip the wiring till next year.

Sorce
 
Messages
438
Likes
241
Location
Western West Virginia
USDA Zone
6a
Looks like a good time to be spraying that one @sorce
Nice, best of luck, err green power.

Ryan gets over my head sometimes, or just faster than I am maybe
but if you sling enough mud on the wall, some of it's gonna stick. I like the parts that stick :)
That balance is hand in hand with Vance's symbiotic example. Will have to get a Scots pine eventually.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
19,161
Likes
24,294
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Ryan gets over my head sometimes, or just faster than I am maybe
I believe this is just because the level of stuff one must already have programmed themselves with to really REALLY benefit from the series is rather high.

Which is why I recommend the Bonsai4Me primer.

Seems he ends up covering Everything as A basic "introduction to" episode.
But still because of the cycle that bonsai and learning is.....
The first episode, and every episode, will contain information that folks do not understand.. .

It will serve Everyone well to go back and rewatch every episode...

It will be like watching "Fight Club" for the second time...
A lot more shit will be seen, learned, amd understood.

This is just the nature of how Bonsai Can be taught.

How we prime ourselves to understand the Unfeatured information will help.

When I sign up......
I'm gonna go off the grid for like a month binge watching shit!

Sorce