Am hoping for thoughts on this Crape (still trying to get a handle on what's ok/good/great yamadori material!)

[SU2]

I've attached multiple pics, w/ my 4" Purdy brush for size perspective (though the phone pole kinda helps too ;D )

I've only been doing this for a year and, I think, am getting better at sizing stuff up - I'm posting this to get an idea how on-point my estimates of raw stock/yamadori quality are, I see this guy as a formidable twin-trunk ('formal twin trunk' style?) specimen, I'd only be using the left-most part (the other stumps to its right would be easily separated, and surely collected as well since, well, why not?! )

I think it's good stock because of the trunk, I envision that I'd be doing some carving to the blunt top based upon which primaries I chose to keep - but the thickness, the trunk-split at such a low height, makes me think this would end up being quite short & thick (my preference for bonsai!) and that, with all the shoots currently sitting on it, it's basically already partially developed (I guess I'm envisioning a canopy made, not of true, thick primaries that lead to thinner and thinner branches/ramification, but of just letting a large # of the current little shoots develop, keep cutting them back, to the point I've got a dense canopy- I guess that, in a way, it'd be as much a topiary as a bonsai lol!)

Any & all thoughts/suggestions/opinions would be hugely appreciated, of this specimen in particular and of how I'm envisioning it / envisioning collections, to me this seems like one of the better crapes I've ever found, would really like others' thoughts!! Thanks

 

[Giga]

If you can get permission to collect go for it, chunky bastard!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Crapes are so strong they recover from almost all abuse quickly.

Don't kill yourself digging around an electrical pole!

 

[SU2]

If you can get permission to collect go for it, chunky bastard!

It's on the property of a person I do work for, would be less 'permission' and more trade (told her I'd do a job for it, am expecting I'd finish the job in 2-3hrs so it'd basically be a $50 'expense' to collect- do you think it's worth that? I do but am still having trouble gaging quality stock!

Crapes are so strong they recover from almost all abuse quickly.

Don't kill yourself digging around an electrical pole!

Thank you!! I didn't even consider that lol, I'm sure I'd have realized very quick upon starting extraction though as I do work with electrical wiring pretty frequently, but thank you for mentioning it because there's always the chance I'd have gone in absent-mindedly w/ the sawzall and turned the block's power off

Do you think it's "good" stock? Worth ~$50 to get it? Would be 'buying' it with work, she needs a job done and I said that, instead of payment, I'd do it for that stump (had to explain to her WTH I was talking about, she still seems confused lol but seems to be OK with it!)

 

[StoneCloud]

I think it would be worth it.

Looks like there could be a very nice tree there.

I would do it, though as BNut said, I would be super carefuly and weary about working around that pole. Dig around it with a strong piece of wood first to see what you have before using saws and pruners, would be my suggestion.

If you get it definitely post updates!

 

[GrimLore]

Don't kill yourself digging around an electrical pole!

lol, why?

Thank you!! I didn't even consider that lol, I'm sure I'd have realized very quick upon starting extraction though as I do work with electrical wiring pretty frequently, but thank you for mentioning it because there's always the chance I'd have gone in absent-mindedly w/ the sawzall and turned the block's power off

If you look up and the feed wires are up there as they should be there is no good reason for any line, electric, water, or gas to be anywhere near the base of a utility pole. Pretty damn hard to install and if so and the lines would all be buried...

Grimmy

 

[0soyoung]

A wise man once said words to the effect of

It has all the elements of a bonsai. The question is whether you have what it takes to get it there [to a bonsai, possibly a good or even a great bonsai]

If you don't, you won't know.

 

[SU2]

A wise man once said words to the effect of

"It has all the elements of a bonsai. The question is whether you have what it takes to get it there [to a bonsai, possibly a good or even a great bonsai]"

If you don't, you won't know.

but I can't know until I've tried! Am past my 1yr mark in this and past 60 trees now (all either collected or hardwood propagations) so still in the development phase w/ most-everything I have, maybe the end of this summer will be time to start setting branches / using wire on some of my trees!

I think it would be worth it.

Looks like there could be a very nice tree there.

I would do it, though as BNut said, I would be super carefuly and weary about working around that pole. Dig around it with a strong piece of wood first to see what you have before using saws and pruners, would be my suggestion.

If you get it definitely post updates!

It's on the property of a client so it's kind of something that I'm just waiting for an opportune time to bring-up again, I've been keeping an eye on it everytime I'm there though (and hose it every time), it's still dormant as of late last week so have a little more time (for 'optimal' pulling time, that'd get me a great season's growth- I know from last year that I can take crapes, yamadori and HW-cuttings, mid-summer and they survive high-90%'s like bougies do!

If I get it I'll certainly post pictures!! My biggest problem with crapes right now is I'm finding them impossible to get ramification on, I recently did spring-pruning to some stuff collected last year, I cut-back the hardened shoots from last year to 2 nodes each, expecting to get 2 shoots from every one of last year's shoots, instead I got 1 shoot growing from the top node of all my hardened last-year shoots....have checked google images and was saddened to find few decent crape bonsais, looks like it can be done but not a lot of encouraging material out there, the specie certainly doesn't 'lend itself' to dwarfing too well (and for all I know, the decent examples on google are of dwarf or mini-leafed varieties, attempting to make bonsai of my stock may not even be possible....at least I can end-up with the 'mass of flowers atop a stump' look if all else fails! That's the go-to plan for some of my larger, earlier-collected materials, when I had zero clue what I was looking for and just thought 'bigger=better' rofl!)

 

[StoneCloud]

but I can't know until I've tried! Am past my 1yr mark in this and past 60 trees now (all either collected or hardwood propagations) so still in the development phase w/ most-everything I have, maybe the end of this summer will be time to start setting branches / using wire on some of my trees!


It's on the property of a client so it's kind of something that I'm just waiting for an opportune time to bring-up again, I've been keeping an eye on it everytime I'm there though (and hose it every time), it's still dormant as of late last week so have a little more time (for 'optimal' pulling time, that'd get me a great season's growth- I know from last year that I can take crapes, yamadori and HW-cuttings, mid-summer and they survive high-90%'s like bougies do!

If I get it I'll certainly post pictures!! My biggest problem with crapes right now is I'm finding them impossible to get ramification on, I recently did spring-pruning to some stuff collected last year, I cut-back the hardened shoots from last year to 2 nodes each, expecting to get 2 shoots from every one of last year's shoots, instead I got 1 shoot growing from the top node of all my hardened last-year shoots....have checked google images and was saddened to find few decent crape bonsais, looks like it can be done but not a lot of encouraging material out there, the specie certainly doesn't 'lend itself' to dwarfing too well (and for all I know, the decent examples on google are of dwarf or mini-leafed varieties, attempting to make bonsai of my stock may not even be possible....at least I can end-up with the 'mass of flowers atop a stump' look if all else fails! That's the go-to plan for some of my larger, earlier-collected materials, when I had zero clue what I was looking for and just thought 'bigger=better' rofl!)

Here is a good thread on crepes and ramification https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/crape-ramification.16020/

In that thread there is a link also to another thread that can help as well haha!

It's a short thread but the info is good and you can resurrect it !!

 

[BigBen]

Looks like there's tons of potential in that tree.
I'd go for it.

 

[0soyoung]

but I can't know until I've tried!

Very true.

IOW, sketch/describe what the possible bonsai you might make from it.
Then write down, step by step, what you would do to achieve each
Then with each choice, what would you do if something goes wrong in the process (a branch dies, for example)
Then begin by initially pursuing the design that leaves you with the most options in case things don't work out as you hope.

Frankly, I only see a learning opportunity. I'm puzzled what might be made of it. I imagine a lot of carving (good opportunity to see what that's like). It is wedged against a pole = a collecting challenge (plus, why would the owner want to keep it anyway?). There's a year or two of just getting it healthy after collection = plenty of time to think about what to do with it.

By all means, TRY!

I'm not trying to kill your enthusiasm.

 

[rockm]

I AM trying to kill your enthusiasm for this very large piece of ugly/strange...This is NOT what you look for in a collection candidate-huge bulbous top growth that has extreme inverse taper. No real sense of "tree" anywhere, with a "trunk" dominated by huge scars and suckers.

The physical effort to get this piece of crap out of the ground is going to be huge. Along with that, while others may minimize it--it may entail getting permission from the utility company to dig it out. The thing is right up against the utility company's property...

If you do get the thing out, what you will have will be a lump of wood with suckers coming off of it. EXTENSIVE carving may remedy that and I've seen very old imported Chinese crape myrtle bonsai that probably began as something like this. HOWEVER, it takes a bit of vision, not to mention skill with an angle grinder (you ain't gonna make much progress on that with a dremel alone).

My guess that in the end, this will be so heavy and awkward to work with, you will abandon it three years in...

There's better material around. This isn't worth the trouble and resources.

"but I can't know until I've tried!"
That's what about a million drunken rednecks (and I'm one of them) have said right before they've hurt themselves needlessly and severely. That phrase comes right after "wanna see something cool? Hold my beer" What follows is NEVER cool and mostly idiotic.

 

[SU2]

I AM trying to kill your enthusiasm for this very large piece of ugly/strange...This is NOT what you look for in a collection candidate-huge bulbous top growth that has extreme inverse taper. No real sense of "tree" anywhere, with a "trunk" dominated by huge scars and suckers.

The physical effort to get this piece of crap out of the ground is going to be huge. Along with that, while others may minimize it--it may entail getting permission from the utility company to dig it out. The thing is right up against the utility company's property...

If you do get the thing out, what you will have will be a lump of wood with suckers coming off of it. EXTENSIVE carving may remedy that and I've seen very old imported Chinese crape myrtle bonsai that probably began as something like this. HOWEVER, it takes a bit of vision, not to mention skill with an angle grinder (you ain't gonna make much progress on that with a dremel alone).

My guess that in the end, this will be so heavy and awkward to work with, you will abandon it three years in...

There's better material around. This isn't worth the trouble and resources.

"but I can't know until I've tried!"
That's what about a million drunken rednecks (and I'm one of them) have said right before they've hurt themselves needlessly and severely. That phrase comes right after "wanna see something cool? Hold my beer" What follows is NEVER cool and mostly idiotic.

I literally thought of the 'hold my beer' meme as I read the first half of your last sentence ;p That's why I posted it here, it's the type of thing that I'm not sure whether it's worth getting or not :/ And yeah it'd need very extensive carving for sure but that's something I've been practicing w/ crapes & bougies already because I collect enough material that's 'chunky' for example:
chunky // less-chunky:
//

(am not trying to say "I've got carving down" because I know I don't, I just mean to say I don't own a dremel I use 4A+ grinders (angle- and die-grinders) with rasp disks/bits, so carving is something I can do / enjoy / want to get better at and certainly not something whose requirement would make me shy-away from a piece, I like large trunks and have trouble finding such material that doesn't need a lot of carving, almost thought that was kind of 'requisite' for large, deciduous/broadleaf specimens? It's very rare to find large trunks w/ a branch in the optimal zone for bonsai :/ )

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

OUCH, my back hurts just looking at this one.

I agree with Rock, I don't see anything I could possibly make of it. Pour on a chemical stump killer, cut flush to the ground after you are sure it is dead, and let the termites and such rot it away.

 

[rockm]

I literally thought of the 'hold my beer' meme as I read the first half of your last sentence ;p That's why I posted it here, it's the type of thing that I'm not sure whether it's worth getting or not :/ And yeah it'd need very extensive carving for sure but that's something I've been practicing w/ crapes & bougies already because I collect enough material that's 'chunky' for example:
chunky // less-chunky:
View attachment 179828 // View attachment 179829

(am not trying to say "I've got carving down" because I know I don't, I just mean to say I don't own a dremel I use 4A+ grinders (angle- and die-grinders) with rasp disks/bits, so carving is something I can do / enjoy / want to get better at and certainly not something whose requirement would make me shy-away from a piece, I like large trunks and have trouble finding such material that doesn't need a lot of carving, almost thought that was kind of 'requisite' for large, deciduous/broadleaf specimens? It's very rare to find large trunks w/ a branch in the optimal zone for bonsai :/ )

N-O-T W-O-R-T-H T-H-E T-R-O-U-B-L-E

 

[SU2]

OUCH, my back hurts just looking at this one.

I agree with Rock, I don't see anything I could possibly make of it. Pour on a chemical stump killer, cut flush to the ground after you are sure it is dead, and let the termites and such rot it away.

N-O-T W-O-R-T-H T-H-E T-R-O-U-B-L-E

I'm sold (or 'not sold'!), won't waste the time! Thanks guys, was really on the fence about whether it was worth it (finding crapes w/ thick trunks that I can get for <$100 is kind of uncommon so I always want to make it work if possible!)