American Chestnut- Blight Free Bonsai?

Jzack605

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I know American chestnut have been devastated by blight, and not many even remain. But I’m curious if anyone’s had success with the non hybrid species as bonsai. I think it’d be pretty cool to grow what was once such a prominent native as a bonsai in its natural form. I’ve found a few growers who claim to have the dentata variety and not a hybrid. Any luck out there?
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Neem oil and insecticides seem to help stop transmission from nearby trees. Last year I sprayed mine heavily and no new infections occurred.
This year however, I did nothing and it's starting to defoliate itself.
 

Jzack605

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It’s America chestnut? Any images?

I’d be surprised if the neem helped as there’s still no known cure or control.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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The American chestnut is Castanea dentata, the European chestnut is Castanea sativa, distinctly different species.
Both species are susceptible to Chestnut Blight Cryphonectria parasitica There is no effective chemical control that will work on large landscape trees.

@Wires_Guy_wires is located in Netherlands, EU, which has a strain of chestnut blight that has been infected with a dsRNA mycovirus, Cryphonectria hypovirus. This virus causes the Cryphonectria parasitica fungus to be hypovirulent - weakens the fungus. So in Europe the chestnut trees have come back in many areas because their local race of chestnut blight have been altered to hypovirulence by the virus. It might indeed be possible to control the weakened blight with chemicals. There is a commercial chestnut orchard industry in Europe, the weakened blight makes this possible.

In the United States and Canada, there are several strains of Chestnut Blight. Only one or two strains are susceptible to the hypovirulence virus. The other strains are immune to the virus. This means in North America, the more pathogenic forms of blight are still common. There are alternate tree hosts for the blight that survive the blight with little or no damage, so it is a plague that will not disappear from an area once the chestnuts are gone.

There are several tactics to try to help the American chestnut to recover.

Hypovirulence - there is an effort to engineer a strain of the dsRNA mycovirus to attack all strains of the Cryphonectria fungus. This is one GMO cure - weaken the fungus.

Another cure is to create transgenic American chestnuts. There are a small number of trees that are 99.9% American chestnut genetics but have a small amount of genes from rye grass which confers immunity to the fungus. This means that chestnuts harvested from these trees for sale as a culinary nut crop would have to be labelled as a GMO product.

There is a hybridization effort bringing immunity from Chinese chestnut species into the American chestnut. Right now I believe there are hybrids around that are 87.5% American Chestnut genes, and showing fair immunity to the blight. Unfortunately, these are hybrids, and do not exhibit 100% the traits of the American Chestnut. THe traits are flavor of the American Chestnuts is unique and by many deemed superior to CHinese and European chestnuts. The growth pattern of the American chestnut is a very large, upright tree, potentially maturing out at heights above 200 feet tall. The other chestnut species seldom top 75 feet. The wood quality for lumber, & cabinetry of the American chestnut is different than the European and Chinese species. Again, many feel it is superior. Except for one antique table I saw, I have no clue as I have never seen real American chestnut wood, or tree or tasted any nuts.

Hybrid nuts are noticeably sweeter than European chestnuts flavor wise.

The last approach is the approach so far showing the least success. Line breeding 100% pure American chestnuts to develop and select for blight resistance. Programs in their F3 and F4 generations are not showing large increases in resistance. Some limited increase in resistance but not large increase.

Probably the most hopeful is some combination of all of the above approaches.

Oh, you asked about bonsai.

I had some chestnut hybrid seedlings, about 50:50 Chinese-American. They are fast coarse growing trees. Think of a tree that superficially looks like a beech. With vigorous long shoots. Long internodes. Mine got browed by rabbits their second year, so I can not tell you more.

My guess would be that if you do develop blight, you can treat with a copper based fungicide or check with loca Ag Extension Service if there is a new fungicide for blight.
 

rockm

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As pointed out, coarse, fast growing, long gangly internodes are the main issues with this species. Blight isn't a problem for the roots, but the top. I have American Chestnuts around here that repeatedly re-sprout from the bases of 200 year old trunks. Younger saplings are also around. I doubt this is an issue for chestnut bonsai... This treatment is do-able for bonsai that develop it--the blight fungus is vulnerable to soil pathogens. Pack infected areas with mud--fungus is eaten by soil microbes...
 

TN_Jim

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Thank you immensely. This knowledge/awareness and updates of is extremely important.

I wish Ken Burns or someone would elaborate more on this tree. We live in a profoundly different place in its absence. There are chestnut barns around, especially in eastTennessee. My woodcarver friend built an amazing small cabin out of one. It’s amazing that these massive 200 yr + trees keep pushing new growth. Having been able to have seen a couple of these was really something special. These were not just a massive tree species, they were a major hub of the entire ecosystem.
 

sdavis

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The American chestnut is Castanea dentata, the European chestnut is Castanea sativa, distinctly different species.
Both species are susceptible to Chestnut Blight Cryphonectria parasitica There is no effective chemical control that will work on large landscape trees.

@Wires_Guy_wires is located in Netherlands, EU, which has a strain of chestnut blight that has been infected with a dsRNA mycovirus, Cryphonectria hypovirus. This virus causes the Cryphonectria parasitica fungus to be hypovirulent - weakens the fungus. So in Europe the chestnut trees have come back in many areas because their local race of chestnut blight have been altered to hypovirulence by the virus. It might indeed be possible to control the weakened blight with chemicals. There is a commercial chestnut orchard industry in Europe, the weakened blight makes this possible.

In the United States and Canada, there are several strains of Chestnut Blight. Only one or two strains are susceptible to the hypovirulence virus. The other strains are immune to the virus. This means in North America, the more pathogenic forms of blight are still common. There are alternate tree hosts for the blight that survive the blight with little or no damage, so it is a plague that will not disappear from an area once the chestnuts are gone.

There are several tactics to try to help the American chestnut to recover.

Hypovirulence - there is an effort to engineer a strain of the dsRNA mycovirus to attack all strains of the Cryphonectria fungus. This is one GMO cure - weaken the fungus.

Another cure is to create transgenic American chestnuts. There are a small number of trees that are 99.9% American chestnut genetics but have a small amount of genes from rye grass which confers immunity to the fungus. This means that chestnuts harvested from these trees for sale as a culinary nut crop would have to be labelled as a GMO product.

There is a hybridization effort bringing immunity from Chinese chestnut species into the American chestnut. Right now I believe there are hybrids around that are 87.5% American Chestnut genes, and showing fair immunity to the blight. Unfortunately, these are hybrids, and do not exhibit 100% the traits of the American Chestnut. THe traits are flavor of the American Chestnuts is unique and by many deemed superior to CHinese and European chestnuts. The growth pattern of the American chestnut is a very large, upright tree, potentially maturing out at heights above 200 feet tall. The other chestnut species seldom top 75 feet. The wood quality for lumber, & cabinetry of the American chestnut is different than the European and Chinese species. Again, many feel it is superior. Except for one antique table I saw, I have no clue as I have never seen real American chestnut wood, or tree or tasted any nuts.

Hybrid nuts are noticeably sweeter than European chestnuts flavor wise.

The last approach is the approach so far showing the least success. Line breeding 100% pure American chestnuts to develop and select for blight resistance. Programs in their F3 and F4 generations are not showing large increases in resistance. Some limited increase in resistance but not large increase.

Probably the most hopeful is some combination of all of the above approaches.

Oh, you asked about bonsai.

I had some chestnut hybrid seedlings, about 50:50 Chinese-American. They are fast coarse growing trees. Think of a tree that superficially looks like a beech. With vigorous long shoots. Long internodes. Mine got browed by rabbits their second year, so I can not tell you more.

My guess would be that if you do develop blight, you can treat with a copper based fungicide or check with loca Ag Extension Service if there is a new fungicide for blight.
Thanks for the detailed info!
 

Jzack605

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I’m bumping this project.

Anyone know a good source for the true species?

I have found this so far:
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I have purchased from Cold Stream in the past. They are excellent source for field ready seedlings raised primarily with forest replanting in mind. They are not "bonsai ready", but young seedlings, that can be trained and made into "pre-bonsai" in a few years. You will get what you order. Bare root seedlings, in good health, & dormant, ready to begin growing. Store in your refrigerator if you can not plant them out within 24 hours of receiving the shipment.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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As of this week, Cold Stream says out of stock.


Chinese chestnut in 2 -3 ft size and 3 - 4 ft size is in stock if you are interested. They do begin bearing nuts fairly young, often as little as 5 to 7 years, so if you want a nut orchard Chinese chestnut is a quick to bear crop. Plant at least 2, as they are self sterile. .
 

NaoTK

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I just repotted 8 or so American chestnuts from one of the original heritage trees here in Oregon. We don't get blight here so we have some old trees. Anyways, I'm going to take a stab at growing a large bonsai. Wow they have terrible roots, all had one long tap root. I had success last year doing a big root prune
 

dacoontz

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I just repotted 8 or so American chestnuts from one of the original heritage trees here in Oregon. We don't get blight here so we have some old trees. Anyways, I'm going to take a stab at growing a large bonsai. Wow they have terrible roots, all had one long tap root. I had success last year doing a big root prune
Hey Nao, I’d be interested in knowing how these are doing. Wonder if they’d do well here in Southern Oregon as well. They seem pretty hardy. I’d love to get one to start for myself. I just read the first chapter of “The Overstory” by Powers. It’s fiction, but first chapter is loosely centered around the American chestnut. It’s peaked my interest.
 

NaoTK

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Hey Nao, I’d be interested in knowing how these are doing. Wonder if they’d do well here in Southern Oregon as well. They seem pretty hardy. I’d love to get one to start for myself. I just read the first chapter of “The Overstory” by Powers. It’s fiction, but first chapter is loosely centered around the American chestnut. It’s peaked my interest.
Reading The Overstory was what pushed me over the edge as well! That very same week, a friend offered me seeds and plants from a heritage tree. If you liked that story in The Overstory I recommend "The Sixth Extinction: An Unnatural History" which explores similar themes (and won the Pulitzer.)

Here are mine today. They don't look like much but are on their way to being bonsai.
2022: seedlings grew freely and were wired. They still had a massive tap root.
2023 spring: I severed the tap root and laid the lateral roots out flat. Lost 1 in the process. They are now growing vigorously. They have a strong back-budding response which makes me think they could be good for bonsai and ramification

1688566140522.png
2022
 

PerryB

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Interesting thread!
I read The Overstory as well, but my interest in American Chestnut goes back 42 years: I had a friend who wanted to build a "Wood Butcher" style house in Central Virginia. He had been collecting old windows, doors and structural lumber for a few years, and he had found a few hand-hewn chestnut log cabins in the Blue Ridge mountains.

All the cabins were in ruins with roofs caved in and flora (and fauna!) invading, but the chestnut logs endured! He wanted a post-and-beam house with a fairly modern vibe and open floor plan on the main floor. I told him we needed about 20 nice logs 18 feet or longer with dimensions of about 6" x 12": He found them!
The house I designed and built had gently undulating posts with rounded edges and faces where the bark had been stripped off 100+ years ago, and hand-hewn faces with the original axe marks.
We also milled enough cedar to have several areas with chestnut paneling and to build custom chestnut kitchen cabinets.
Working with chestnut was an absolute joy and I still consider it to have been a great privilege.
 

dacoontz

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Those are looking good Nao. I’m going to have a do a local search at a couple of my favorite nurseries to see if there are any being cultivated around here. Thanks for the book reference.

That’s a great story PerryB. Would love to see pics of that home. Thank you for sharing that memory. I could only imagine.
 

sdavis

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I just repotted 8 or so American chestnuts from one of the original heritage trees here in Oregon. We don't get blight here so we have some old trees. Anyways, I'm going to take a stab at growing a large bonsai. Wow they have terrible roots, all had one long tap root. I had success last year doing a big root prune
Where are the old trees in Oregon? I am in Bend.
 
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