American Larch, Larix laricina "Deborah Waxman"

[NHATIVE]

Hi all,

I figured I'd start a thread on this one. I visited the local nursery today and came home with this Larch I have been eyeing, *cough* I mean my son picked out for me...The density of foliage is pretty overwhelming, especially with the vast amount of old needless that are scattered throughout. I tried cleaning some out today, but that would have quickly (or slowly... very slowly) turned into an all night affair. Hard to see, but the trunk has nice delicate movement and quite a nice taper throughout, in addition to some workable nebari.

My first move is just going to be doing a fairly basic cleaning and trimming of some of the weaker branches, then just letting it grow out its first push of growth to get a feel for it. I've tried doing some research on this particular "Deborah Waxman" cultivar, but haven't found much other than it being a dwarf variety with a blueish needle color. Has anybody else had experience with this one?

Excited to see where it goes, I will be sure to post updates.

Cheers!

 

[penumbra]

I don't know this one but your son really picked an awesome plant.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I'm not a naysayer, but this is going to be difficult to style. Keep us posted!

 

[penumbra]

this is going to be difficult to style

I don't really think so. I just think it needs to be styled a bit differently than most. Bonsai are certainly a guide for me but no more so than trees I see growing every day.

 

[Wilson]

These have wonderful foliage, and should be a nice additionto your collection. Aside from removing a bunch of branches, I don't see any reason to think this should be difficult to style.

 

[NHATIVE]

I'm not a naysayer, but this is going to be difficult to style. Keep us posted!

Just out of curiosity, any particular reason you think this will be difficult to style? I haven't worked with anything like this before so would love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Forsoothe!]

The two facets of the foliage type are very important to the kinds of designs that are refine-able. If you elect to keep the foliage short by pinching regularly, then the standard look of flat layers on flat branches need flat branches that spriral-staircase their way to the top. I don't know if this tree is tall enough to make that look right.

Or, if you do not pinch and have longer foliage that is a more fuzzy-bear look, the branch structure of the tree lends itself to a broom which is hard for me to visualize it looking like anything other than just a big, strange fuzz ball.

(I'd really like to hear some other design ideas) I think I would make it a very small standard design formal Christmas tree shape with everything pinched closely. In that case, all the biggest branches would go in favor of retaining much slimmer, shorter branches wired flat to slightly drooping to march up the spiral staircase, which coincidentally would magnify the size of the trunk/nebari. That would reduce the mass of the tree by about 90%?

I may regret this answer.

 

[NHATIVE]

The two facets of the foliage type are very important to the kinds of designs that are refine-able. If you elect to keep the foliage short by pinching regularly, then the standard look of flat layers on flat branches need flat branches that spriral-staircase their way to the top. I don't know if this tree is tall enough to make that look right.

Or, if you do not pinch and have longer foliage that is a more fuzzy-bear look, the branch structure of the tree lends itself to a broom which is hard for me to visualize it looking like anything other than just a big, strange fuzz ball.

(I'd really like to hear some other design ideas) I think I would make it a very small standard design formal Christmas tree shape with everything pinched closely. In that case, all the biggest branches would go in favor of retaining much slimmer, shorter branches wired flat to slightly drooping to march up the spiral staircase, which coincidentally would magnify the size of the trunk/nebari. That would reduce the mass of the tree by about 90%?

I may regret this answer.

Thanks for the ideas! There's a lot of foliage and branching to sort through and a lot of it will indeed end up coming off. That being said I think there is a lot of possibility with the large amount and density of budding that is in close to the trunk (and even on the trunk in some places). After I clean out some unwanted branches I'm going to eventually try pulling some branches down with wire to hopefully end up with an informal upright design. I also see some possibility of adding a few Jins up the trunk with some of the thicker branches that are angled up that would be difficult to pull down and ultimately not aid in the design much... Either way there's a lot of foliage to work with and I'm excited to learn from this tree!

I haven't worked with Larch much, so I'm also curious how they take to hard pruning? If I can I'd like to get to cleaning out the weaker branches and opening things up a bit next weekend, before the buds start popping...

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Larch do back bud on younger wood, but once bark forms, back budding becomes less likely.

You have enough branches to not need to worry about back budding on the trunk.

There's only one branch I see that should go, that is the very first branch. It looks like it might be from below the graft. If it is, it will have different foliage, more green and like a wild type for larch.

The graft on this one is very well healed, difficult to see. "Good enough" for bonsai. Actually more than good enough.

I would not rush to style this tree. Look at larches and pines in your area, find an attractive "model" you like, and follow that. In Wisconsin and Michigan, Jack pines tend to be more and informal broom style than the "classic" pine or for tree shape. You do not need to make it look like a spruce. In Europe, P. sylvestris, scots pine, has more an informal upright to even a broom shape. Look around for a model that let's you use as much of the tree that is there, rather than cut away 90% and then have to wait a dozen years for branches to grow back.

If you first try to use most of what you have, and later don't like it, it will be easy to cut off more to restyle toward one of the more classic larch or spruce styles. Hard to grow back volume of branches if you go radical reduction in the beginning.

 

[sorce]

the biggest branches would go

Yup, this thing has, I believe the word is "plethora", of perfect small branches.

Them thicker ones can go for sure.

I'd opt for the larger at the trunk split, so far.

And definitely cut that antenna off the top!

Best get some wire I reckon!

Copper or bust, aluminum is gonna be too big IMO.

Sorce

 

[NHATIVE]

Update: May have got a bit heavy handed with the cutters, but I like what came of it. This should help bring growth closer into the trunk. Also, changing the trunk line to the thick trunk on the right I think will add some nice movement and character. I really did not like the transition of the straight trunk where multiple branches caused swelling. The trunk to the right provides a smoother transition of taper. Included a drawing with I possible future development.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Looks like you kept the thickest branches, and got rid of the fine, smaller branches. It is one way to tackle this plant. I would have kept more of the finer branches, but I do not have the tree in front of me, designs from photos are not my strength. As for your "virtual", I don't like it with the front where it is. Try rotating the front 180 degrees, have the new apex leaning toward the viewer, that shorter, proposed apex should lean to the viewer. I think visually it will become much more pleasing. Definitely the tall current apex needs to go, given what you have already eliminated. But you might let it grow a season or two before doing another round of hard pruning.

 

[Captain.Bonsai]

Feb 2, “My first move is just going to be doing a fairly basic cleaning and trimming of some of the weaker branches, then just letting it grow out its first push of growth to get a feel for it.”

3 weeks later:

 

[raydomz]

Looks like it's off to a great start. I would make the move to jin the large straight section up the middle now, before spring hits.
You can start your plans of extending the trunk line upward via the branch on the right more easily this way. My experience with larch has been that if I have a large sacrifice branch on the tree, the remaining sections move very slowly, if at all, and thus I do not try to build out other sections while building a trunk. Once removed, the tree regains balance and can be worked further. If you're happy with the caliper, cut it off!

 

[AlainK]

the large straight section up the middle now

Not a bad idea to remove it.

On a young larch, healing is very neat and rather fast, actually faster than on some maples for instance.

So instead of making a "jin", I would simply prune it and let the scar heal, in 3 year's time, it should have closed. On Japanese larch or Dunkel larch at least, but I presume it's about the same for tamarack...

 

[andrewiles]

@NHATIVE, any photos from this summer and fall? I'm curious how it grew after the pruning.

I picked up one of these as well a few months ago -- first larch for me.

Interestingly, mine is from Iseli Nursery and the tag says Deborah Waxman European Larch, while their website with the exact same product printout says "American" larch. Guess they changed their minds recently.

 

[NHATIVE]

@NHATIVE, any photos from this summer and fall? I'm curious how it grew after the pruning.

I picked up one of these as well a few months ago -- first larch for me.

Interestingly, mine is from Iseli Nursery and the tag says Deborah Waxman European Larch, while their website with the exact same product printout says "American" larch. Guess they changed their minds recently.

It grew into what I called over the summer "smurf larch"... If I had to do it over again, I'd do a lot of things different; mainly not cut everything off right away. Live and learn. It's starting to bud out again already though. I'm hoping the new apex will assert itself this year and I can start a bit of a "do-over" with the new fine branching.

The chop needed to happen regardless, and I like where I made it (jin likely not permanent) so I guess that's a nice positive!

The foliage came out with longer needless than it had at the nursery (it had very short compact needless), but I'm thinking that had something to do with the aggressive hack job...

I'll try to update once it pushes everything out.

 

[andrewiles]

That looks like something out of a Dr. Seuss book . Seems quite healthy.

If you haven't seen it this thread has lots of good info: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/when-to-trim-larch.33644/

I just repotted mine into a flat. No pruning yet though. Probably let it grow for a year or two.

 

[NHATIVE]

That looks like something out of a Dr. Seuss book . Seems quite healthy.

If you haven't seen it this thread has lots of good info: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/when-to-trim-larch.33644/

I just repotted mine into a flat. No pruning yet though. Probably let it grow for a year or two.

View attachment 359361

Oh that looks great! What soil mix did you ended up using? I just slip potted mine into a flat as well. After doing some reading (Tamarack), I used a pumice/compost mix. In the nursery can it was potted in pure organic material/compost and the root ball was far smaller than the can.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I rest my case.