American pine

BonsaiWes

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Here is a collected Ponderosa, the first pics are the tree as I bought it last spring while at a farm watching Marco Ivernizzi wire and style trees. The tree had been collected/potted 3 years prior to my ownership in the 2 gallon can. the a pic from later winter 2006 where I decided it could use some wiggle.
 

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BonsaiWes

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Here is some shots from today, I re potted the tree into an in between pot so I could get a feel what the roots where like for having a good pot made when the tree is finished. With luck the tree wouldn't slip out of the pot as it was bound with all feeders. I changed the planting angle, my first and only idea for the tree is that of a cliff hanger bearing the signs of wind and wispy literati foliage. changing the planting angle I think has greatly improved the material. This year the challenge of tackling the branch lines and more growing.
 

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Tachigi

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I changed the planting angle,
Wes, this tree is great. I am not sure that I am crazy about the new potting angle, but thats just me. Your original angle had movement and a lot of character. With the addition of a jin or two it would have really made this tree pop.

I'm sure you have more plans for the new angle. Right now, since this is all that I can see it seems kinda flaccid. For me the interest and tension has been removed. I will look forward to seeing this tree come along and what you have planned for it. Good luck
 

Ashbarns

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To my mind pic. #1 works for me, portraying an interesting life the tree has undergone. This planting angle displays the true feeling of bunjin whilst keeping the whole image in a compact direction. The tree exudes a Nakaesque feel, though I doubt if this was the artists intention. Choosing the right pot will be the next challenge and will place this pine up there with the best. Great interpretation Wes.


Kind Regards Ash :cool::cool::cool:
 

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Wes-

The new potting angle is a great improvement! I think that if you spend the next 3-5 years feeding, feeding and then spend a little more time feeding, you will get good backbudding and ramification so you can reduce the foliage pad and eliminate the lion's tails that are so common with these collected trees. This will turn out to be a great tree!
 

Vance Wood

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Wes-

The new potting angle is a great improvement! I think that if you spend the next 3-5 years feeding, feeding and then spend a little more time feeding, you will get good backbudding and ramification so you can reduce the foliage pad and eliminate the lion's tails that are so common with these collected trees. This will turn out to be a great tree!
That is good advise for the sake of the tree, but as to the back budding; I have never known a Ponderosa Pine to back bud very well if at all.
 

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That is good advise for the sake of the tree, but as to the back budding; I have never known a Ponderosa Pine to back bud very well if at all.
Really? I have only been working with them for two years, and I see it all the time. I do say that with a caveat, of course. Backbudding will come on "younger" branches that are not barked up. And, of course, the younger the tree, the more back budding you get.

An example, I have one pondy that was collected in May '04, and got its initial styling in Feb '06 (it was healthy, putting out new growth and had roots growing out of the bottom of the pot). I fed heavily in '06, and then did the Larry Jackal needle reduction method over Labor Day weekend. New buds were popping all over the tree, many on old wood. In one case, a bud popped 7" back a branch, which looking at growth rings, it was on approximately 15 year old wood.
 

Vance Wood

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Really? I have only been working with them for two years, and I see it all the time. I do say that with a caveat, of course. Backbudding will come on "younger" branches that are not barked up. And, of course, the younger the tree, the more back budding you get.

An example, I have one pondy that was collected in May '04, and got its initial styling in Feb '06 (it was healthy, putting out new growth and had roots growing out of the bottom of the pot). I fed heavily in '06, and then did the Larry Jackal needle reduction method over Labor Day weekend. New buds were popping all over the tree, many on old wood. In one case, a bud popped 7" back a branch, which looking at growth rings, it was on approximately 15 year old wood.
This does not appear to be a young tree and appears to be "barked up" the branches quite a distance. I would also be interested in the technique you speak of.
 

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I ran out and took a quick picture of one branch in question. Again, this tree was collected in '04, worked in '06, and will be left alone now for two years. The bud to the right is the furthest one back on this tree, but most branches have buds that go back 5-7 years worth of growth, while this bud is about 15 years back. While looking at another tree collected last year, there are new buds popping on old wood, about 9-10 years back, on multiple branches.

Sorry about the lack of detail. I circled and then arrowed to the new buds that popped on this branch. I can get a close up of the one bud, if needed, but I think you get the gist. It is approximately 7" or 15 years of growth from the branch tip to the bud on the right.

The Jackal method I mentioned was published in the ABS Journal in Summer '99. It is basically a fall candling technique that works to increase backbudding and ramification. Some have had good success, some not so good as it severely weakens the tree, so it should only be done on healthy trees and not every year. I think on this tree I got about 60 new buds on old wood, needle bundles and branch ends. Again, haven't really worked with ponderosa very long and I have no benchmark, but this was a test tree and I think this was a pretty good start - we'll see how the year shakes out and the tree responds.
 

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BonsaiWes

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My pine is also begining to candle and back bud, I spotted about 10 marks behind current foliage tufts popping in the new spring. Here is a pic, trying to get some control over the branching, the over all plan still hasn't showed it's self. Comments, suggestions, photoshopped versions are all open.
 

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Wes,
I like your tree, and it seems to be doing quite well. I like your new wiring better but still wonder about your anchor points. In the close-up, the end circled really isn't holding very well. I know the books talk about one and a half turns being enough to anchor, but it really doesn't. What's a better way in this situation? Simply tuck the end of the wire under the previous one, and as you wire, it holds well as you go down the branch.

This technique should be used, of course, only for orphan branches that can't be paired up with another branch. In other words, it should be used rarely (although perhaps more latitude for collected trees like ponderosas with minimal branching that is very long.)

The other photo, can you tell me what happens to the wire where I have it circled? I have crudely marked a possible wiring plan for the other side, where the red line represents a continuation of the large wire on the left.

It's a great tree, and the most important thing right now, you are doing, making sure this is healthy and backbudding. Nice work!
 

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BonsaiWes

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Hi Chris,

Here I have quickly/crudely marked the wire that is currently on the branches. The branching on the left was all done with the same strand of wire. The left has heavy wire running the leangth of the trunk-branch then smaller wire for each branchlet. The wiring job always looks much much better before i start bending and adjusting, usualy by the time I am done it has wriggled loose here and there like you see.
 

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Bonsai Nut

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I love the tree, but the pot has GOT to go :) I know it is an interim pot, but it is tough to get past it :)
 

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Chris-

The close-up of the branch you circled is of my tree, not Wes'. This tree was wired during one of my first workshops, a Boon workshop none-the-less, and was one of the first formal wiring lessons I got. You are very correct that the wire noted (the smaller of the two) is incorrect in that it has no anchor point and is borderline useful. I have learned quite a bit about wiring since this time, and I assure everyone I wouldn't make the mistake again. So, those noob's out there, use my example as what not to do - as Chris was right to call it out - and simply continue the larger wire out to the end of the branch as opposed to a) starting another, smaller diameter wire in and b) not wrapping it to the end of the shoot to properly position the terminal bud.
 
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JasonG

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Hi Wes,

While I like your tree the branch I circled in yellow bothers me. Can you tell us what your plans are with this one? Do you plan to move it over the top of the main branch, actually the continuation of the trunk? Just curious as to your plans.
Having said that, Since you just did root work you could be leaving it to help generate roots or an insurance branch? Is this the picture of your current front? I could see the tree bieng rotated to the left a few degrees to better show the trunk movement as your front. That is the main feature of the tree and should be brought out a bit more IMO.

Nice tree, I look forward to the progress of this one, so far so good!!
My comments are based off this picture and we all know that a 2d picture is nothing like seeing it in person.....

See Ya, Jason
 

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BonsaiWes

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I love the tree, but the pot has GOT to go :) I know it is an interim pot, but it is tough to get past it :)

Oh c'mon, it's slightly better than the plastic can it was in eh?

:cool:
 

BonsaiWes

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Hi Wes,

While I like your tree the branch I circled in yellow bothers me. Can you tell us what your plans are with this one? Do you plan to move it over the top of the main branch, actually the continuation of the trunk? Just curious as to your plans.
Having said that, Since you just did root work you could be leaving it to help generate roots or an insurance branch? Is this the picture of your current front? I could see the tree bieng rotated to the left a few degrees to better show the trunk movement as your front. That is the main feature of the tree and should be brought out a bit more IMO.

Nice tree, I look forward to the progress of this one, so far so good!!
My comments are based off this picture and we all know that a 2d picture is nothing like seeing it in person.....

See Ya, Jason

Hi Jason,

Good to hear from you. Hmm, people keep asking me about my plan and I gotta say I know about as much regarding styling needles as Mr. Magoo. I have decided to go with the majority vote and loose/jin the heavy branch so the brnach you have circled will become the crown area. I want the tree over all to look as if it has been ripped by the wind.
 
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Personally, I'd like to know who wants you to remove that branch! Of course, I'd want to see it in person, but I don't think that would be necessary to make this a beautiful tree. On collected ponderosa pines, I would think more would be better until the tree is too full.

Can you take a few more photos? I usually shoot eight, one from each of the major directions and one inbetween each. Not saying I want to see that many, but it helps me visualize all the way around my tree as I flip throught them. And if you could take one from above, that would help a lot.
 

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