Amur maple advice

[palafr01]

Hey guys another post here about a troublesome maple that i have. I have had the tree for 7 years and due to a combination of poor soil for a number of years and neglect it has ended up in this sorry state. 2 years ago i placed it in an APL mix to improve the roots but the akadama degraded. So i do plan on repotting it this year and replacing the akadama with fired clay adding some bark.
The biggest question i have is how to go about this material as it is now. I believe using the old back as the new front and hiding the rot in the back is a start, but i could use some advice on improving the nebari in addition to restoring the trunkline. I'd appreciate any advice given.

Note: I purchased the tree from Rosades and it wad likely an airlayer so there isnt much trunk below the current nebari. Also the smaller of the two trunks still can be manipulated if sightly to improve its angle. Pics below.

 

[ArchyBonsai]

im not an expert but my mind keeps saying rework the nebari from scratch by potting deeper and making a mother daughter style tree. You can clip bottom growing roots or use tourniquet method. It'd be best to use tourniquet method if your starting with material like this.

 

[Shibui]

Changing back to front is easy to say but sometimes harder to do. Branching and apex needs to be right to be able to change.
It may just work with this tree.
Chop main trunk just above the smaller branch to give taper and change of direction. Fortunately also brings the trunk back over the base for better balanced upright style.
Maybe not right away (need some growth to help heal that chop) but at some stage chop the new trunk to a branch that brings the new trunk line more to front.
Build branches - near first chop for branch outside bend, back and so on.

Not sure about the smaller trunk/ first branch. Angle is awkward, needs drastic chop to get taper, etc. For a start just chop way back and see what happens. If no useful shoots remove completely.

Layer for twin trunk is a possibility but will need to get a much better angle on the smaller trunk to be good.

 

[jeremy_norbury]

Amur maples will rot - my 2 oldest ones both have rotted out trunks...look nice, but still the trunk has almost gone on both of them.

I'd cut my losses at this point and airlayer both trunks off this year.

 

[rockm]

Amur maples will rot - my 2 oldest ones both have rotted out trunks...look nice, but still the trunk has almost gone on both of them.

I'd cut my losses at this point and airlayer both trunks off this year.

That's my experience too. Post trunk chop trunk rot, or even trunk die-back on established bonsai can be an issue with this species.

 

[PonderingSage:]

That's my experience too. Post trunk chop trunk rot, or even trunk die-back on established bonsai can be an issue with this species.

Dang! I got two with some significant dieback as well.
Maybe I’ll put them back in the ground and see what happens

 

[palafr01]

That's my experience too. Post trunk chop trunk rot, or even trunk die-back on established bonsai can be an issue with this species.

Thanks for the response @rockm, given those tendencies how do people develop amur maple then? My gut tells me that frequent small cuts are the way to go, and over time a nice trunkline and branch structure can be made by selecting the best options as they appear. It is currently what I have been trying with an air layer from this tree and I have had decent success with wound healing. Curious what your thoughts are on that, or should I try for a more conventional sacrifice branch knowing I could potentially run into this rot issue again? Thoughts appreciated.

 

[palafr01]

Concerning this tree I will probably just repot it into a better soil to get better drainage and allow it to recover. If it proves really vigorous I may do an air layer at the highest point, but it wouldn't be a high priority for this year.

 

[rockm]

Thanks for the response @rockm, given those tendencies how do people develop amur maple then? My gut tells me that frequent small cuts are the way to go, and over time a nice trunkline and branch structure can be made by selecting the best options as they appear. It is currently what I have been trying with an air layer from this tree and I have had decent success with wound healing. Curious what your thoughts are on that, or should I try for a more conventional sacrifice branch knowing I could potentially run into this rot issue again? Thoughts appreciated.

They live with the damage and work around it or with it. Sometimes it can be extensive, sometimes not. Starting with seedlings can minimize the problem. Be careful with any larger reduction, keeping the issue in mind--cut a few inches above where you want new growth, etc.

 

[jeremy_norbury]

Thanks for the response @rockm, given those tendencies how do people develop amur maple then? My gut tells me that frequent small cuts are the way to go, and over time a nice trunkline and branch structure can be made by selecting the best options as they appear. It is currently what I have been trying with an air layer from this tree and I have had decent success with wound healing. Curious what your thoughts are on that, or should I try for a more conventional sacrifice branch knowing I could potentially run into this rot issue again? Thoughts appreciated.

They will heal cuts in the ground but can grow very vigorously and soon loose shape. The biggest (tallest) one I grew I had to compost it because it got too ugly too quickly - there was no saving the shape it got itself into with massive ugly roots and massive reverse taper.

Airlayers work easily and cuttings strike very easily.

 

[The Warm Canuck]

They will heal cuts in the ground but can grow very vigorously and soon loose shape. The biggest (tallest) one I grew I had to compost it because it got too ugly too quickly - there was no saving the shape it got itself into with massive ugly roots and massive reverse taper.

Airlayers work easily and cuttings strike very easily.

Yes, I've learn't the same thing. I will never allow more than one large vertical branch to grow from the trunk, as it creates a weird inverse taper bulge. Also if grown in the ground, it must be root pruned every year, (and if it where possible, twice a year! haha). I only have experience with younger trees, I don't know how they react in a pot. I'm also looking at creating styles that present well with deadwood features.