Another Japanese Maple- what to do

Dav4

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This is another maple started by a cutting over 10 years ago and grown out. I'm planning on doing some work on this tree in maybe 2-3 weeks, so I thought I'd start a thread on it. The chop down low is the result of air-layering the main trunk a year prior to collection. It's been in the anderson flat for almost 1 year. I can tell you the roots need alot of work, as there are only 3 large roots coming of the trunk (as of last spring). So what would you do? I've got an image in mind and a general plan (thanks Al) on how to get there, but I'd love to hear any comments or suggestions.

Dave

ps pics didn't post- I'll add them this afternoon
 

Dav4

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pictures

Here they are
 

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Dav4

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Pictures of the surface roots.
 

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serpentsgarden

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Idea

I see a swaying cascade thing happening. Something more liek a cascade uprigth if that makes sense. The knot could be turned into a hollow and really make the tree feel imposing. In my opinion. A nice upright more formal liek could be awesoem too. But for the most part i see a tree with a foliage layed in layers and somewhat cascade byt he way the eye follow the trunk. It has a lot of possibilities though
=)
 

Smoke

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Well even though you have a plan, and even though we don't know the plan...

I guess not knowing the plan makes this post a bit moot, but never the less...I find it absolutley perfect for the next chop.
 

Smoke

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I see a swaying cascade thing happening. Something more liek a cascade uprigth if that makes sense. The knot could be turned into a hollow and really make the tree feel imposing. In my opinion. A nice upright more formal liek could be awesoem too. But for the most part i see a tree with a foliage layed in layers and somewhat cascade byt he way the eye follow the trunk. It has a lot of possibilities though
=)

Have you ever cascaded an apical dominate tree like a trident? If the answer is no, then it makes sense that you feel,this might work. Cascadeing a trident requires so much work it's not worth the effort. Shohin cascades are a little easier but larger trees suffer from cascadeing.

In reading above I think you mean a very slanted tree which could be done, though the chop has made the trunk look funny to be a slant tree. The chop will always be obvious, and the trunk above the present chop is very stovepipe. A good slanted tree will be slanted on emergence from the ground. This tree was straight and then slanted due to the chop which is always a dead giveaway.
 

Dav4

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Well even though you have a plan, and even though we don't know the plan...

I guess not knowing the plan makes this post a bit moot, but never the less...I find it absolutley perfect for the next chop.

Al, I deliberately didn't include my plan for this because I wanted to hear others' thoughts first. I'm generally fairly comfortable with my design decisions before committing to the work. Still, I know there can be options I might not have considered. Having said this, I wasn't considering another chop as the next step. I'd love to hear your thoughts about why you would, and what you would envision for this stock. Thanks again,

Dave
 

Smoke

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Al, I deliberately didn't include my plan for this because I wanted to hear others' thoughts first. I'm generally fairly comfortable with my design decisions before committing to the work. Still, I know there can be options I might not have considered. Having said this, I wasn't considering another chop as the next step. I'd love to hear your thoughts about why you would, and what you would envision for this stock. Thanks again,

Dave

I have a plan.....:D
 

Smoke

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Yeah...I bet my plan is bigger then your plan!:D:p.


(Tongue in cheek, knowing how good your shohin are, Al)

Thats what make the world turn. You get to do yours and I get to do mine. What I would do is moot. It's what you will do that counts. So just "do it" and show us down the road.
 

Dav4

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I kept working the roots last year, removing the rest of the big ones...there was still about 70% of the base without roots, just callous, so I re-wounded, applied rooting hormone, put it back in the flat and crossed my fingers. Unfortunately, last year was a BAD year for my palmatums planted in anderson flats and kept on the ground...overall weak growth followed by premature leaf drop. I'm not sure why (I suspect my dogs were secretly relieving themselves on the flats...they deny it, though:p), but I was concerned my efforts to rebuild the nebari here would be delayed or worse. With that in mind, I was happy to see a fairly uniform spread of new roots with only a few areas without, and those were mostly confined to the back. This year, I'll continue to grow out the next section of trunk....though probably not on the ground:rolleyes:.
 

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MACH5

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Good work! I am really liking that low branch. A very nice maple in the making!
 

JudyB

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The dogs were probably trying to fertilize for you!

Nice progress for such a bad year, could it have been weather related? I had problems with some ground trees from the weather.
 

Dav4

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The dogs were probably trying to fertilize for you!

Nice progress for such a bad year, could it have been weather related? I had problems with some ground trees from the weather.

I'm really not sure. I guess I would have said the weather was fairly typical here last summer...it was unnusually dry and we did have close to one week of temps over 100F, but these guys get a fair amount of shade, and I water daily.

The 2 palmatum stumps were placed right next to each other on the ground, in anderson flats using a mix of mostly turface with some lava and grit. The other stump did much worse, slowly losing most of it's leaves by late summer then weakly shooting out sporadically on the trunk and branches well into the fall. It got re-potted 2 weeks ago...roots looked ok...waiting with fingers crossed. This one held onto most of its' leaves, though they were faily small and many were misshapen. I wondered if my mix could have been staying too wet...the two trident stumps I have did fine in it, though they were in nursery cans...my dogs are short and could only dream of fertilizing them.
 

Dav4

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This one had the main trunk shortened over the summer. It seemed too long with no taper, so it was cut back and a new leader was started. Both the new leader and the smaller trunk really grew well and have thickened up nicely. The smaller trunk was cut back today and will have some wire applied to the branches soon. The new leader needs more girth and will be allowed to grow for at least another season before being shortened, but some of the smaller branches will get wired this winter. Also, more thread grafting will be done this spring.
 

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MACH5

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Nice Dave! Yes I see those long leads itching to be thread grafted! :D I am doing quite a few of those myself in the spring. Any idea of what the nebari looks like?
 

Dav4

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Nice Dave! Yes I see those long leads itching to be thread grafted! :D I am doing quite a few of those myself in the spring. Any idea of what the nebari looks like?

Well, the layering provided an OK nebari to work with, and whatever was there grew up and throughout the sphagnum moss that was applied to the soil surface. I'll probably be repotting in February and will take some pics then.
 

discusmike

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Are you leaving the low branch for healing the large chop, or planning a twin trunk? Nice job getting rid of the field roots, what a diffrence in a few seasons.
 

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