Another Juniper..please comment

greerhw

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This is a grafted California juniper I bought from Jim Gremel, the wire man and much more. This is not a current picture, because I can't get to it very easy right now. It still looks much the same, except the foliage has filled out some more. A lot of people think it looks like a hat rack because of all the jin above the folliage. This picture dosen't show the shape of the jin very well, but it does look good in person. So, here is my question, what would you do if it was your tree, leave the jin alone, or remove some of it. All feedback and opinions are more than welcome, just don't expect to follow all of your recommendations. :) I found a more recent picture the day I received it in the mail last spring along with a JBP with an incredible trunk,two in one day. I'll save the JBP for another day.

Harry
 

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Ask Jim for your money back!

Harry,

The first thing you do is ask Jim for your money back - he can't be trusted! After he says no, I'd work on refining the shimpaku foliage. I love the green color of Shimpaku and the small compact foliage, but if you don't refine it you'll get the "Poodle Balls" on the branches because Shimpaku grows on the bottom as well as the top.

First, I would define the secondary and tertiary branching - this might mean that you're going to have to let a few branches grow out a bit. Next, once the branching is established, clean all the foliage off all the way to the end of the branches - there should only be green on the ends of each branch. Finally, wire everything and style.

This is a nice tree, but with a little work, it can be awesome. Keep us posted.

Juniperus Californica
 

greerhw

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It came from Gregory Beach Bonsai, Don Blackmond. If it's nice tomorrow, I'll take a current picture for you, in the meantime here is a picture I bought it from.

Harry
 

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buddhamonk

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I'm seriously drooling right now. That is a stunner.

As for the other tree I feel that there's not enough foliage compared to the size of the trunk. It's gonna have to grow a lot more to compensate for that monster deadwood. I remember seeing it on Jim Gremel's website.
 

buddhamonk

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gregory's trees are impressive but so are the prices. Again I'm biased because of where I live (oregon)
 

greerhw

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gregory's trees are impressive but so are the prices. Again I'm biased because of where I live (oregon)

There are no bargains in bonsai, you pay for what you get or you get what you pay for. Next time you find a bargain bonsai nursery, please let me know, I would really appreciate it.

Harry
 

buddhamonk

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I'm not even talking about bargains here. I think in general bonsai sold in Oregon are significantly cheaper than those sold on the east coast or even california
 

Mark59

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Hello Harry, Those are some very nice trees as always. I am, like you an evergreen fanatic! I saw that tree on Jim's website back in the summer. I kept going back often to look at it and then one day it said sold next to it. Then I was looking at the forums awhile back and saw it posted here or on BT I can't remember which, and said damn, Harry grabbed it! LOL.
 

greerhw

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I'm not even talking about bargains here. I think in general bonsai sold in Oregon are significantly cheaper than those sold on the east coast or even california
I believe you are talking about Yamadori, and it's true that native trees are probably cheaper there. But I talking about old import trees which can't be imported now. There are no cheap old JBPs anywhere in the USA. If they are beware, something is wrong. That's just my experience and I would love to be proven wrong.

Harry
 

JasonG

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I'm not even talking about bargains here. I think in general bonsai sold in Oregon are significantly cheaper than those sold on the east coast or even california
Where can you buy a pine like that in Oregon?? If you found one you will pay way over $1000 for it, I guarantee it. Kinda funny, the best native material in Oregon, and the states for that matter is right here in your backyard and nobody from the Portland area comes out. We were just talking about this the other day....Its funny really.

Back to the pine, nobody in Oregon has pines for sale (not yamadori) that are even 25% as good as the tree Harry posted.

Jason
 

buddhamonk

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actually I'm not even talking about yamadori. Oregon bonsai specializes in yamadori but places in oregon like telperion farm, weetree farm and iseli nursery have imported stocks. I've compared prices and I've never said they were "cheap" or "bargains" but they are significantly less expensive.
 

JasonG

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This is a grafted California juniper I bought from Jim Gremel, the wire man and much more. This is not a current picture, because I can't get to it very easy right now. It still looks much the same, except the foliage has filled out some more. A lot of people think it looks like a hat rack because of all the jin above the folliage. This picture dosen't show the shape of the jin very well, but it does look good in person. So, here is my question, what would you do if it was your tree, leave the jin alone, or remove some of it. All feedback and opinions are more than welcome, just don't expect to follow all of your recommendations. :) I found a more recent picture the day I received it in the mail last spring along with a JBP with an incredible trunk,two in one day. I'll save the JBP for another day.

Harry

Hey Harry,

Killer pine! I look forward to seeing the progress on that one! The juniper...the jins are good I think, they aren't what jumps out to me. The first thing I notice is the cascading branch on the right. What are your thoughts on it? I could almost see 2/3 of that branch getting cut off and the flow of the foliage going more to the right. Ofcourse the apex needs to fill in, and the first branch on the left needs to be a little longer. Just some thoughts to open the discussions a bit...that is if you are still here :)

Jason
 

buddhamonk

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Where can you buy a pine like that in Oregon?? If you found one you will pay way over $1000 for it, I guarantee it. Kinda funny, the best native material in Oregon, and the states for that matter is right here in your backyard and nobody from the Portland area comes out. We were just talking about this the other day....Its funny really.

Back to the pine, nobody in Oregon has pines for sale (not yamadori) that are even 25% as good as the tree Harry posted.

Jason
I'm not comparing quality of the trees here compared to other places. What I meant is that tree for tree, pound for pound, prices in Oregon for trees of similar quality are significantly lower. (i don't know what harry paid for his and I was referring to other trees on the website). And it's possible that my bias comes from the fact that I'm comparing local prices and internet prices. I'm sure if someone lives close to a bonsai nursery on the east coast and they know the owner, they'd get a good deal, but comparing prices online, that's been my observation.

I just don't understand why every said on this forum consistently ends up being misinterpreted
 
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JasonG

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actually I'm not even talking about yamadori. Oregon bonsai specializes in yamadori but places in oregon like telperion farm, weetree farm and iseli nursery have imported stocks. I've compared prices and I've never said they were "cheap" or "bargains" but they are significantly less expensive.

I have been to Telperion, they have old imported Azaleas and Wee Tree doesn't have any imported pines and I am almost sure maybe one or 2 imported trees total in Dianes personal collection. I haven't been to see what Joe Harris has but I do know most of his stock was sold over a year ago. From what I understand there is some misc. stuff left.

That pine of Harrys would be a steal here in Oregon at $1200 to $1500. It is hard to price a tree in a picture, I would need to see it in person but I know the type of trees Harry buys and if you could find that tree for $1200 you would be getting a steal. Ofcourse there are only about 3-5 people in the area who would actually spend that kinda money on a tree, lol!! Sad but true.
 

buddhamonk

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I bet that pine was listed way over $3000 based on the other trees from the website
 

JasonG

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I'm not comparing quality of the trees here compared to other places. What I meant is that tree for tree, pound for pound, prices in Oregon for trees of similar quality are significantly lower. (i don't know what harry paid for his and I was referring to other trees on the website). And it's possible that my bias comes from the fact that I'm comparing local prices and internet prices. I'm sure if someone lives close to a bonsai nursery on the east coast and they know the owner, they'd get a good deal, but comparing prices online, that's been my observation.

I just don't understand why every said on this forum consistently ends up being misinterpreted
Sorry if I misread your original post, but I took is as meaning there were pines like this at bargain prices when I know that to not be true. There are some old imported pines in personal collections that are as good as this one, I have seen those. But I assure you they didn't come from Oregon or a nursery in Oregon.

You are right though, a trident maple in the field that local people cry at a $100 price tag can easily fetch $200+ in California and that will have a line of people wanting to bid on it. Same with shohin yamadori, an nice fat twisted RMJ that people will squack about spending $1500 on, Californa and the East Coast will give you that and a left arm and be happy about it.

Seattle is way better too, they are willing to pay for a good tree.

Jason
 

JasonG

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http://www.gregorybeachbonsai.com/resources/jbp105a.JPG

this pine is listed at $3150. I'm sure you and I can find a much better deal in Oregon. (I'm not saying that this tree isn't worth that much to someone)

by the way Joe Harris still has quite a bit of stock
Yeah, I could but it would be collected and it would be 10 years to get this ramified. To be fair though, I don't know anything about this tree, is it an old collected tree from Japan? If it is then the price is justified.

You are right though, the nursery trade in Oregon is huge therefore we get general trees cheaper than most places. But when it comes to high end bonsai, old imported trees, if you can find them they will be spendy and pretty much on par with other parts of the country. I price over 800 trees a year for OB, I do all the pricing to all the clients, and even have Randy call me over to price a tree so and so is interested in. Some of the trees I do price are old imported pines, while that is not very often (buy out an old collection, people downsizing, trades etc..) I do price them and they sale the next day with a phone call.

Anyways, it all doesn't really matter since the market is so different based on location and the seriousness of the collector. Some are more serious then others and want the best and aren't afreaid to pay for it.

Jason
 
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