another live oak thread--holy moly

rockm

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I ran across this vid of Wigerts bonsai collecting this beast. Aside from not being able to afford a pot for it down the road, any thoughts on it's suitability for bonsai?

 

Pitoon

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I think only time can tell if it can be worked into something admirable. Me personally i'm not digging the base. It just doesn't look right with the roots all coming to a complete stop where they did the cuts.
 

Cajunrider

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For me there is a limit to the size of the bonsai trees. If they are too large then they stop being a bonsai for me. They then are just trees. The live oak is this thread is approaching that limit for me.
Here is an example of one that is no longer bonsai for me. Of course there are many who have different opinion.
 

penumbra

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For me there is a limit to the size of the bonsai trees. If they are too large then they stop being a bonsai for me. They then are just trees. The live oak is this thread is approaching that limit for me.
Here is an example of one that is no longer bonsai for me. Of course there are many who have different opinion.
I understand what you are saying but an outstanding trained large bonsai plant is not just a "tree" anymore than a Ferrari is just a "car".
 

just.wing.it

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If they are too large then they stop being a bonsai for me
I have to agree.
A large containerized tree is not necessarily a bonsai.

I thought Bonsai was supposed to "create an illusion of a large, mature or ancient tree, in miniature."......ain't nothing miniature about a plant that needs to be hoisted by a gantry or a forklift.

My bulging T10-T11 disc is hurting me just thinking about big trees.
 

penumbra

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I have to agree.
A large containerized tree is not necessarily a bonsai.

I thought Bonsai was supposed to "create an illusion of a large, mature or ancient tree, in miniature."......ain't nothing miniature about a plant that needs to be hoisted by a gantry or a forklift.

My bulging T10-T11 disc is hurting me just thinking about big trees.
I completely agree with this statement. Many years ago I found in some text the reference to larger specimens that were referred to as "bonsai in the ground". I know I am playing the devil's advocate by splitting hairs here, but they are not just "trees". But of course it is all semantics; a personnel definition. Not to say that it has not been clearly been laid forth for centuries that which is defined as penjing or bonsai, but virtually no one holds steadfast to all of the "rules" that have been passed down. All art is living and evolves for better or for worse. If it was that rigid you would have few really interested. Most people have a bit of awe for the art of bonsai (and penjing) whether they are serious practitioners of the art or not. But to others they are just tortured little trees. I would love to look at the bonsai(?) in the video up close but honestly I would also be reluctant to call it a bonsai. Now the trunk of the oak that started this is just plain but ugly to me.
 

namnhi

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My question... Does anyone know if that stump survive collection? I see no roots on it.
 

Cajunrider

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I understand what you are saying but an outstanding trained large bonsai plant is not just a "tree" anymore than a Ferrari is just a "car".
Don't get me wrong. I can appreciate the art and the work put into those large bonsai. I'm just saying they lose the bonsai feel for me.
 

rockm

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For me there is a limit to the size of the bonsai trees. If they are too large then they stop being a bonsai for me. They then are just trees. The live oak is this thread is approaching that limit for me.
Here is an example of one that is no longer bonsai for me. Of course there are many who have different opinion.
Most of the Japanese trees at the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum are large to huge. The Yamaki pine approaches this size, if not equals it. All in all, a containerized large tree is still less than 1/4 the size of most "real" old trees in nature... So, scale is relative. This one, I think, could be made into a pretty nice, huge, HEAVY tree that I wouldn't want to take care of.

FWIW, this Chinese Elm at my friends bonsai nursery is larger than this live oak.emperor.jpg
 

Cajunrider

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Most of the Japanese trees at the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum are large to huge. The Yamaki pine approaches this size, if not equals it. All in all, a containerized large tree is still less than 1/4 the size of most "real" old trees in nature... So, scale is relative. This one, I think, could be made into a pretty nice, huge, HEAVY tree that I wouldn't want to take care of.

FWIW, this Chinese Elm at my friends bonsai nursery is larger than this live oak.View attachment 248770
These are still bonsai to me. As I said, at this size they are approaching the limit. I've seen so called bonsai in pots 20 ft in diameter with 4ft or so trunks. For me those are above the limit.
 

Wilson

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Most of the Japanese trees at the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum are large to huge. The Yamaki pine approaches this size, if not equals it. All in all, a containerized large tree is still less than 1/4 the size of most "real" old trees in nature... So, scale is relative. This one, I think, could be made into a pretty nice, huge, HEAVY tree that I wouldn't want to take care of.

FWIW, this Chinese Elm at my friends bonsai nursery is larger than this live oak.View attachment 248770
Do you have a closer photo of this elm? It looks like an incredible tree!
 

namnhi

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In the video the she said the tree had been dug a year earlier. This was a repot, not an initial potting.
Thanks. I did watch the collecting video a few years ago. Was thinking that is the same vid.
The trunk does NOT look interesting on this one.
 

rockm

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Do you have a closer photo of this elm? It looks like an incredible tree!
This is a bad photo of it's other side. This is an old Chinese import. It weighs about 500 lbs. Takes a backhoe to lift it. An overwintering shelter has to be built around it in December.

My friends repotted it last year, gave it a hard root cleanse. They pulled out large chunks of old ornate Chinese bonsai pots from the sixties or so. They had to use a forklift to suspend it while they did the root work.emperorelm2.jpg
 

Ali Raza

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I ran across this vid of Wigerts bonsai collecting this beast. Aside from not being able to afford a pot for it down the road, any thoughts on it's suitability for bonsai?

Never seen something like this before. Good Work
 
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any thoughts on it's suitability for bonsai?
I personally see nothing special about this tree. there are literally millions of trunks like this one available, but destroying one like they've done is ridiculous given how unlikely it is that anyone could offset the environmental cost with a truly phenomenal artistic final design. in contrast with the log they have chosen, the elm you posted has a very interesting shape!

If the first photo attached here is the 'front' for example, and if they were to develop a trunk appropriate for the species, they would end up with a 15-20 foot tall tree (minimum). But based on the photos that Wigert's shares online, it does not look like they will develop the trunk at all. Rather, it looks like they will probably draw a bunch of squiggly lines coming out of a big mound... but this isn't a trident maple, it's a live oak! 🤣
 

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Silentrunning

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I had lots of Live Oaks on my property in Florida. They are a wonderful tree. Several of mine were over 30” in diameter on the trunk. I never had one drop a branch or show any damage from pests. As hardy as they were I would guess they would make a good bonsai. The only problem is I am way too old to work with a tree that big and that heavy. :(
 

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