Another Nursery Azalea Gets a Chop

[Mellow Mullet]

John, you're wiring the wrong part! As you've noted, lignified azalea is really brittle. It really doesn't "bend", it breaks.

What you should be wiring are those soft green shoots with the new leaves! Wire those and remove wire in 6 weeks or so. Cut back, let it grow out again. Then wire again. You could do this 3 or 4 times a year in your climate.

Wow, thanks, Adair, for your input. And, yes, I know that it is easier to wire the "green" shoots. I do it most if the time. On this particular azalea, an indica--not satsuki. and another that is named Congo, the new growth is very tender. Unless you wait until it has hardened off some, it will simply "pull" off at its point of origin at the slightest bit of manipulation. So on these two, I find it better to wire the branches when they harden off. I did apply the wire in January, and it will come off soon, when it gets tight.

As you know, I do things a little different down here in the Heart of Dixie, not saying my way is better, just different. I find that all azalea branches that are 3/8 inch or less are fairly easy to put subtle bends in. The ones on the tree in this post are about 1/8 inch, bending is no problem for me, it may be for others; yeah, I broke a couple, but it happens. Maybe it is not how they do it in Japan, but it works in Alabama.

I am really waiting to see what comes out on this one and will probably cut back even to get more ramification close to the trunk.

Again, thanks. Did you see the juniper I posted? What do you think? How can I make it better? Will you be coming to Mobile any time soon? Let's have a beer and talk about it. Or, maybe a margarita...

John

 

[Adair M]

Wow, thanks, Adair, for your input. And, yes, I know that it is easier to wire the "green" shoots. I do it most if the time. On this particular azalea, an indica--not satsuki. and another that is named Congo, the new growth is very tender. Unless you wait until it has hardened off some, it will simply "pull" off at its point of origin at the slightest bit of manipulation. So on these two, I find it better to wire the branches when they harden off. I did apply the wire in January, and it will come off soon, when it gets tight.

As you know, I do things a little different down here in the Heart of Dixie, not saying my way is better, just different. I find that all azalea branches that are 3/8 inch or less are fairly easy to put subtle bends in. The ones on the tree in this post are about 1/8 inch, bending is no problem for me, it may be for others; yeah, I broke a couple, but it happens. Maybe it is not how they do it in Japan, but it works in Alabama.

I am really waiting to see what comes out on this one and will probably cut back even to get more ramification close to the trunk.

Again, thanks. Did you see the juniper I posted? What do you think? How can I make it better? Will you be coming to Mobile any time soon? Let's have a beer and talk about it. Or, maybe a margarita...

John

When they're still 1/8 inch caliper, it's true, you can still bend them.

On wiring green shoots: wait until the shoot gets to about 6 inches. It's still flexible, yet sturdy enough to be handled and wired.

I live in North Georgia, pretty far South, maybe not a Deep South as Mobile, but our climates are not so different that different techniques are necessary.

The whole "wiring green shoots" is very controversial here in the US. Not only for azalea, but for deciduous and broadleaf trees, too. It's not controversial because it "doesn't work", it's controversial because of ignorance. None of us ever knew how to properly grow deciduous trees until recently, when the Japanese apprentices began returning home!

In fact, did you see Bjorn's video blog he posted on FaceBook? The one where he says he's soon to be returning to the US permanently? One little comment he makes is he wants to start teaching classes on how to do deciduous trees "properly"!

Lol!!!

Mark my words, the methods I've been (and MarkyScott. too) promoting will become the new normal.

Meanwhile, ill look for your Juniper thread.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Thanks, but are you calling me ignorant? Doesn't matter,I have been called worse. I have known for a long time that you need to wire green shoots, don't need someone from Japan to approve.

How about that margurita?

 

[namnhi]

[QUOTE="Adair M, post: 443121, member: 1340 Bnut. ....It's not controversial because it "doesn't work", it's controversial because of ignorance. None of us ever knew how to properly grow deciduous trees until recently, when the Japanese apprentices began returning home!
[/QUOTE]
Not sure how many in this nut house agree with that statement. I disagree!

 

[Shima]

Or wire "double helix" style?

Yes...that's what I meant, I didn't word it properly.

 

[Adair M]

Thanks, but are you calling me ignorant? Doesn't matter,I have been called worse. I have known for a long time that you need to wire green shoots, don't need someone from Japan to approve.

How about that margurita?

Not you in particular. I meant we, in general, as bonsai practitioners in the US. I will confess to being totally ignorant of the proper way to train deciduous (or let's say, the Japanese way) until I started studying with Boon. Maybe I was just behind everyone else, I don't know. But, I still see more people try to style their maples by wiring in winter rather than firing the summer growing season, than I see people wiring during the growing season. Cc

Look, "ignorant" doesn't mean the person isn't smart. It doesn't mean they can't learn. It just means they don't know. I'm ignorant about many things. Tropical bonsai, for example. Totally ignorant. Clueless. Motorcycles, I know nothing about them. Koi fish. They're beautiful, but what makes one valuable and another not, well, I have no clue. In many cases, I'm so ignorant, I don't even know what I don't know! Usually, when I do start to study stuff, I find out how little I knew, then find there's more to know than I thought there was!

Look, it doesn't matter whether it's Japanese technique, Samoan technique, Zambian technique... the deciduous trees I've seen here in the US can't come close to those in Japan. I'm just trying to get the knowledge out.

I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, I certainly didn't mean to.

Now, where's that Margarita???

 

[Adair M]

[QUOTE="Adair M, post: 443121, member: 1340 Bnut. ....It's not controversial because it "doesn't work", it's controversial because of ignorance. None of us ever knew how to properly grow deciduous trees until recently, when the Japanese apprentices began returning home!

Not sure how many in this nut house agree with that statement. I disagree![/QUOTE]
You're right, of course. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to have said "few of us"... I certainly didn't have a clue until Boon told me I had been doing deciduous trees wrong for 40 years! Lol!!!

Bill Valavanis certainly knew. But he learned it from Yugi Yoshimura. Who learned it in Japan.

Ryan Neil knows. But he apprenticed in Japan.

Namnhi, who do you know that's really good with deciduous trees that didn't learn how in Japan or from someone who studied in Japan?

 

[namnhi]

Not sure how many in this nut house agree with that statement. I disagree!

You're right, of course. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to have said "few of us"... I certainly didn't have a clue until Boon told me I had been doing deciduous trees wrong for 40 years! Lol!!!

Bill Valavanis certainly knew. But he learned it from Yugi Yoshimura. Who learned it in Japan.

Ryan Neil knows. But he apprenticed in Japan.

Namnhi, who do you know that's really good with deciduous trees that didn't learn how in Japan or from someone who studied in Japan?[/QUOTE]
How about Dan Robinson, Vaughn Banting, Chase Rosadel, Guy Guidry and a few others. Am looking at National Bonsai collection... Some of the deciduous trees there are donated by American bonsaists. I don't think they were trained by Japanese.

 

[sorce]

Japanese Deciduous.......

Pine Maples.....

And young park tree brooms.

Neither is convincing....

Beautiful....

But a convincing deciduous technique....

Like emissions cheating.....

Came out of Germany.

Just saying.

Sorce

 

[Mellow Mullet]

No offense or hurt feelings, I know what ignorant means and was actually hacking with you, that is the problem with the net, words are only words and it is difficult to tell their intent since there is no emotion, facial expressions, body language, or voice inflection that come with them. Anyway, haven't wired much in the summer mostly because I am lazy, it is hard to wire with the leaves on and even harder to get it off, but I will give it a shot as I really want my maples to improve. I will also continue to throw some on in the winter and at repotting. We really don't have much winter here anyway.

John

 

[barrosinc]

Not sure how many in this nut house agree with that statement. I disagree!

You're right, of course. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to have said "few of us"... I certainly didn't have a clue until Boon told me I had been doing deciduous trees wrong for 40 years! Lol!!!

Bill Valavanis certainly knew. But he learned it from Yugi Yoshimura. Who learned it in Japan.

Ryan Neil knows. But he apprenticed in Japan.

Namnhi, who do you know that's really good with deciduous trees that didn't learn how in Japan or from someone who studied in Japan?

What is the major difference as we do it in America compared to Japan?

 

[Mellow Mullet]

UPDATE:

Here is where we are on this one at the beginning of the year. Before work:









After thinning out:



And a little wire:

 

[tree4me]

Very nice progress. I'll be working some of mine today. Would cutting branches, say 1/2", be advisable this time of year?

 

[just.wing.it]

Yeah, this one has a really cool trunk, I need to hunt for some like that.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Very nice progress. I'll be working some of mine today. Would cutting branches, say 1/2", be advisable this time of year?

Yes, just leave a little stub, say 1/2 inch long, if you plan to remove the entire branch. Then finish the cut later in the year.