Antique Chinese Bonsai Pots as Investment?

[sorce]

dumb question

Hell no. And I am loving this multi convo!

I wouldn't take the single off your hands, and might consider $10 if the pot was clean.

The group. I would have to research frax...if it makes the 40% ish "good for bonsai" requirement, without "BS info on it for real"....

If pay up to $100 cuz the pot is clean, and it shows the growers level of care.

........

I agree with Rock about the investment...

There's a 1% chance you'll find the right person at the right time, with each pot, to prolly even make it worth it.

Other than that youre selling a "lot" of shit that is "just taking up space", and though possibly a big number...add up low ball storage figures, time handling "fragiles", amd what you paid for them plus shipping if there was....

And you're better off putting trees in em and....

Not worrying so much about $!

Sorce

 

[Tentakelaertje]

@rockm @sorce thanks for your replies. The grape sold for 20, and the group for 45 shopping credit at the guy's place who bought it. (He has a bonsai store.)
The market over here is just shit for starters like this lol. Maybe in the States bonsai and pots are proper investments, which would be awesome! You'd probably need a good deal scouting eye and a nose for business tho. Selling trees is hard to do, they are our babies after all. But replacing them with nice ceramics does bring fun.
How cool would it be to do bonsai for a living? How hard would it be? Pretty fucking much of both I reckon!
Investing in property/infrastructure is rewarding too, forgot to add that to the list of last message. Renting out houses gives a lot of passive income. You do need to have money first tho lol.
Ya can always try the paperclip game!

 

[Anthony]

Maarten [ @Tentakelaertje ],

old Indian philosophy -------------- Buy land first, then build house.
Wife, if needed afterwards [ that's how you handle divorce ] and if desired
and affordable ----- children [ 1 or 2 ]

Also encourage Wife to buy her own land. She can also rent a house or two.

As Bonsai goes, enjoy the hobby, after 10/20 years if you are good enough to
win competitions, you can sell all of your rejects.

I now have a cousin in New Zealand, a Doctor, so when you get there, and if
you wish, I can give you a number.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Tentakelaertje]

Maarten [ @Tentakelaertje ],

old Indian philosophy -------------- Buy land first, then build house.
Wife, if needed afterwards [ that's how you handle divorce ] and if desired
and affordable ----- children [ 1 or 2 ]

Also encourage Wife to buy her own land. She can also rent a house or two.

As Bonsai goes, enjoy the hobby, after 10/20 years if you are good enough to
win competitions, you can sell all of your rejects.

I now have a cousin in New Zealand, a Doctor, so when you get there, and if
you wish, I can give you a number.
Good Day
Anthony

Anthony, that's a really awesome offer, thanks a lot! I'll keep you updated on it!
Thanks!

 

[Vinnie Charity]

Maybe a kinda dumb question, but what do you think are quality trees? At what show level are they? Are they at show level? And if not, how far away are they?

I ask because from what's available on the auction groups on fb the prices are high in comparison to Europe. Especially the prices hobbyists ask and pay from and to other hobbyists.

For example, I sold these tree this saturday:

Vitis vinifera shohin size:
View attachment 173459


Fraxinus excelsior chuhin size:
View attachment 173460

How much would you guys pay? And knowing how pricing differs, how much do you think they sold for?

Not wanting to take away anything from the discussion, I just thought it a curious statement.

If inflation is calculated into prizes paid for pots/trees/similar items, are they still more expensive? I dunno, but I don't expect it to have risen much. Think of what a dollar would buy you 'back in the day'.
Real smort investments are probably pot and low-value cryptocurrencys

I've been looking for pots in this style, both glazed and unglazed. I never know what to search for other than "shallow oval bonsai pot" or "oval bonsai pot" and I can never find them.

Any ideas on where I could find some?

 

[YellanBonsaipots]

Kind of a funny topic that I was thinking about today especially because I got another antique Chinese Pot today in the mail is are quality Antique Chinese Bonsai Pots a good investment? What type of appreciation in value do you think you could get per year?

Some Reasons Why I think they are:
-There is a finite amount of them
-Bonsai will likely increase in popularity over the next thirty years
-Prices for quality trees are on the rise(thinking Bonsai Mirai)

I'd tell anyone to invest wisely in Real Estate before thinking about putting significant money into Antique pots, but hey... maybe this conversation could help me convince my wife to let me buy some more

Also, while we're on the topic, please post them if you got them!

Like this?

Unfortunately, this is a fake commodity.
It costs less than $6.I'm from Yixing, China. My family is engaged in making purple sand flowerpots. Many people bought this from me and went back to imitate the old ones.

 

[Tentakelaertje]

I've been looking for pots in this style, both glazed and unglazed. I never know what to search for other than "shallow oval bonsai pot" or "oval bonsai pot" and I can never find them.

Any ideas on where I could find some?

I totally missed your comment, sorry! I got a couple of them in some local Ebay buys but nursery websites or pot dealers like Matt Ouwinga or Alex from the European Bonsai Potter Collective are very good places to start looking if there's no ebay stuff. Also shows, clubs and workgroup members could help you out.
A lot of potters have their own websites you can visit, they often are divided into shapes i.e. oval, round etc.
Hope this helps!

 

[Driftwood]

Hi, what do you think about this pot? it's not even advertised as a bonsai pot!

 

[Forsoothe!]

Like this?
View attachment 241205
Unfortunately, this is a fake commodity.
It costs less than $6.I'm from Yixing, China. My family is engaged in making purple sand flowerpots. Many people bought this from me and went back to imitate the old ones.

I bought a couple like this 20 years ago on Ebay listed as Chinese antiques. I was not thinking of valuable antiques, just as older style pots. They were both brand new and the ~semi-glaze~ wore off a lot like clear satin acrylic paint. I don't remember what I paid for them, but probably 50 to $75 and not expecting that I was buying an investment. I was just buying "old". The Chinese sell as antiques literally everything under the sun and with a straight face along with seeds for baby blue Japanese Maple trees and I don't know how you can trust the provenance of anything sold anywhere in the world without going through a dealer and with some certification.

I bought several Chinese company stocks listed on US Exchanges that were in retrospect, complete earnest frauds. If you are not an expert in what you are buying you are subject to being just another link in a fraudulent scheme. I buy what I like to look at and expect that the cheap bastards that are the bonsai community I associate with never pay more than a few dollars for anything. Buy what you like, invest elsewhere.

 

[Adair M]

I bought a couple like this 20 years ago on Ebay listed as Chinese antiques. I was not thinking of valuable antiques, just as older style pots. They were both brand new and the ~semi-glaze~ wore off a lot like clear satin acrylic paint. I don't remember what I paid for them, but probably 50 to $75 and not expecting that I was buying an investment. I was just buying "old". The Chinese sell as antiques literally everything under the sun and with a straight face along with seeds for baby blue Japanese Maple trees and I don't know how you can trust the provenance of anything sold anywhere in the world without going through a dealer and with some certification.

I bought several Chinese company stocks listed on US Exchanges that were in retrospect, complete earnest frauds. If you are not an expert in what you are buying you are subject to being just another link in a fraudulent scheme. I buy what I like to look at and expect that the cheap bastards that are the bonsai community I associate with never pay more than a few dollars for anything. Buy what you like, invest elsewhere.

Yes, “Buyer Beware”.

I have a number of Antique Chinese pots. When you have a really good tree, a really good, old, pot can really set it off. They are often rather narrow, though, and more modern pots will usually have more drain holes. It may actually be better for the trees to only use the Antique Chinese pots for shows, and after the show, return them to more practical pots.

 

[Driftwood]

Yes, “Buyer Beware”.

I have a number of Antique Chinese pots. When you have a really good tree, a really good, old, pot can really set it off. They are often rather narrow, though, and more modern pots will usually have more drain holes. It may actually be better for the trees to only use the Antique Chinese pots for shows, and after the show, return them to more practical pots.

Could you comment about the green pot? I understand its difficult to tell and so little info and understanding but apart of a narrow shape tendency what other characteristics could help as a guide? Perhaps Thickness, lack of wire holes, patina etc.

 

[Adair M]

Could you comment about the green pot? I understand its difficult to tell and so little info and understanding but apart of a narrow shape tendency what other characteristics could help as a guide? Perhaps Thickness, lack of wire holes, patina etc.

It’s difficult to assess a pot from a single picture, taken at an angle.

It looks “wonky”. Depending upon how wonky it is, that may be something that gives it character, or it may just be a second.

Does it have drain holes? Can’t tell. As long as a pot has good drain holes, it’s good. I don’t care for pots with wire holes. I use the drain holes to secure the wire.

I can’t tell anything about the thickness of the clay. It appears to have been used.

Is it chopped? Made by a specific maker? Can’t tell.

 

[Driftwood]

It’s difficult to assess a pot from a single picture, taken at an angle.

It looks “wonky”. Depending upon how wonky it is, that maybe something that gives it character, or it may just be a second.

Does it have drain holes? Can’t tell. As long as a pot has good drain holes, it’s good. I don’t care for pots with wire holes. I use the drain holes to secure the wire.

I can’t tell anything about the thickness of the clay. It appears to have been used.

Is it chopped? Made by a specific maker? Can’t tell.

Thank you for replying, I'm afraid there is not much info (current owner not even taking the measurement) there is one more pic though. By the way! If It is not too much bother, could you comment about unmarked flowering pots?

PS edited to add pictures.

 

[penumbra]

I can't tell anything from the pictures you have to work with. It could be worth something but it rather looks like a flea market find.

 

[Driftwood]

I can't tell anything from the pictures you have to work with. It could be worth something but it rather looks like a flea market find.

Lol I'm afraid many good antiques may 'rather look like a flea market find'.

 

[penumbra]

Lol I'm afraid many good antiques may 'rather look like a flea market find'.

Truth to be told, I have bought and sold several hundred antiques at flea markets. I'll be there all weekend.

 

[Adair M]

Thank you for replying, I'm afraid there is not much info (current owner not even taking the measurement) there is one more pic though. By the way! If It is not too much bother, could you comment about unmarked flowering pots?

PS edited to add pictures.

View attachment 332228

It’s really hard to determine value from your pictures. Are the holes drilled? Or were they original? If drilled, that “could” indicate that it was an old incense pot converted to bonsai use. The clay bottom is rather thick. Again, that “might” indicate it’s an old pot. Or not.

You need someone like Matt Ouwinga or Michael Ryan Bell give you an expert opinion.

 

[Forsoothe!]

A lot of antiques are of a different taste than the people who are still live admire. I'm pretty sure I'll never strike it rich buying a 16th century work of art because I would pass it up with a sneer. Again, you have to know what you are looking at to appreciate what it is. I know good art if it's made out of plastic.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Thank you for replying, I'm afraid there is not much info (current owner not even taking the measurement) there is one more pic though. By the way! If It is not too much bother, could you comment about unmarked flowering pots?

PS edited to add pictures.

View attachment 332228

It looks like Cantonese ware; either genuine or a replica. Those can be worth very little to quite a bit, based on age, condition, glaze quality, and provenance; and it’s hard to tell much from these photos. The first photo shows damage (Chips on edges of the rim), the clay appears to be relatively low-fired, and the glaze is pretty even, suggesting mass-production. In the second photo, the clay looks like it may be higher-fired, which would make it more resilient in cold weather. The dimensions make me think it isn’t antique, but maybe 30-50 years old. If the seller won’t provide information, I would assume it’s not worth much. These are pots you really want to buy for a steal and get lucky, or buy from a very reputable seller.

 

[chicago1980]

Solid thread and OP question. I am personally I'm the same state of mind currently

I struggle to connect with new containers due to the "new car smell". I consistently find myself making choices that lean into antique chinese and japanese pots.

I would say it is definitely not the quality or craftsmanship because Rayner, Waldo, Ron Lang, Tom bends Gyouzan, and many more pots I have held and purchased are beautiful.

For me it's the patina that connects the whole composition of tree and pot.

I am still learning about Bonsai pottery from Japan,China and the rest of the world.

I also find antique pots are hard to pair with medium and larger native collected trees.

Antique pots are usually narrow in comparison.