Any pictures of a jap. Holly?

[Kevster]

Anyone have any good pictures of a Jap Holly bonsai?
I have Googled, Binged, and searched this site for a good picture but have come up with nothing really. Mostly a lot of sticks in a pot.
I am looking for something that has been established and good refinement.

Thanks everyone!
Kevin

 

[Poink88]

Not sure if you are looking for ilex crenata (and not serrata) though.

How about this. Found in 20 secs.

http://thebonsaitree.info/japanese-holly-ilex-serrata
http://bonsaibark.com/2010/12/04/bonsai-gallery-five-magnificent-trees/

 

[Attila Soos]

Jap ...

Careful with that word. It has a very negative reputation, since WWII. I know your context has nothing to do with it, but people of Japanese origin may take offense.

Ilex crenata can make a spectacular bonsai, although have not yet seen a good one here in So. California. It prefers the cooler climates, such as may be Delaware.

 

[berobinson82]

Novelist Holly Uyemoto. Japanese-American. Closest I could find. Also, it took WAY longer than 20 seconds.

 

[Kevster]

Sorry if I offended you Attila. I didn't think much of it since I see J. And Jap. as an abbreviation and it is used all over this forum and many other sites as such. As with many other plants abbreviations are used and often the country, nation, or region is part of the abbreviation.
Funny you say it may offend some and I guess I could see that if that's the first thing you notice and think when you read that. I get offended every time I hear someone say cracker.
Sorry if I seem offended. I feel as if I was just called a racist when I am the farthest from it and half my inlaws are Japanese which were in WWII. This also makes my wife half Japanese. My grandfather was also in WWII though he fought for the USA <--- an abbreviation.

Sorry for venting.

Anyway I was looking more for Ilex crenata and it took me well more then 20 seconds to find nothing worth looking at. Thanks Poink!

 

[jk_lewis]

I've noticed it too -- many times. It's really not that hard to type a few more letters -- Japanese. Or even, J. holly. I think most of us would know you didn't mean Jersey Holly.

It may not bother your family, but it does bother many Japanese friends of mine.

 

[Attila Soos]

Sorry if I offended you Attila.

No problem at all. I am the farthest from calling you anything, but since the thought jumped out as soon as I read your post, I thought I'd mention it. I hope you don't take it as an offense.

 

[Bill S]

Kev, don't take offense, i have been wrist slapped fro the same offense(if you call it that) he was just the one to mention it. The boards attempt at PC, as for some the term is a slur, or at least percieved that way. An easy mistake to make, no harm no foul.

 

[Kevster]

Ok. Sorry again everyone. Obviously it wasn't my attempt to upset anyone. I will be more careful and break my short hand habit.
Glad everyone is understanding!

 

[rockm]

It may seem like ancient history, but given what we're talking about on the forum involves old Japanese men and their hobby, this comes up. It's been coming up on forums like this for years. I stepped in the same pile of whatever 15 years ago online. The word will continue to carry a larger connotation, especially on a forum that discusses Japanese cultural stuff...

No reason to get offended because someone told you you might be insulting people inadvertently and unintentionally. Take it for friendly advice. I don't get upset with my wife when she tells me I have spinach in my teeth, or tells me I need a breath mint (which happens a lot...)

 

[PaulH]

I understand the sensitivity. My Dad used to tell me about getting beat up and called a kraut and a nazi in school during WWII because he spoke German at home.

 

[Bill S]

Wives!

There will always be something like this to go around. As rock said friendly advise, we didn't think you meant any harm.

 

[John Romano]

Back to the original question at hand. If you are looking for the deciduous holly, (Ilex serrata, aka Ume Modoki), just google 'Japanese winterberry bonsai' and you will get loads of pictures of very high quality trees.

 

[rockm]

Ilex serrata (umemodoki) bonsai from Japan:
http://web-japan.org/kidsweb/virtual/bonsai/bonsai03_03.html

 

[DRIFTER7777]

i like this one

 

[Attila Soos]

There seems to be a lot of confusion here about the name.

Japanese holly - the title of this thread, is Ilex crenata.
So, if we want to stick to the subject, we should NOT refer to Ilex serrata, which is the Japanese winterberry. Am I right or wrong in this assumption?


PS.: on the other hand, we can EXPAND the definition of Holly, and include all species of Ilex found in Japan....in which case the Japanese winterberry is also part of the Holly family. But it's not THE Japanese holly.

 

[John Romano]

Hi Attila,
Japanese winterberry is also Japanese Holly, just a deciduous holly. I'm not sure if by 'Japanese Holly' there is any more meaning than what people have simply commonly referred to what is often used for landscape plants - Ilex crenata. However, in bonsai circles, Japanese holly is commonly referring to Ilex Serrata. In both instances, these are just culturally descriptive names, not botanical references. If you are looking for botanical correctness, then both are Ilex (holly) and are both considered of Japanese habitat. Serrata is a deciduous holly and is also a Japanese holly. So the confusion is only whether one is referring to the Crenata or the Serrata. Both are hollies. Whether one is culturally referring to the Crenata more often as 'Japanese Holly' is almost meaningless to some - I've always personally considered Ilex Serrata (or umemodoki) to be 'Japanese Holly' - then again, I have never grown Crenata as either bonsai or landscape so it is not in my common reference. I'm not trying to make an issue of your question / comparison - just showing that there is a difference in what a 'name' is and what it really means or is just culturally referring to.

 

[Attila Soos]

Hi Attila,
Japanese winterberry is also Ilex. It is a deciduous holly and is also a Japanese holly. So the confusion is only whether one is referring to the Crenata or the Serrata. Both are hollies.

He was referring to the common name: Japanese holly. Only the Ilex crenata has that particular common name.

The other one (Ilex serrata) has Japanese winterberry, as the common name. I know that it is a deciduous holly, of course. There are many other deciduous hollies as well, but he was asking about one particular one.

 

[rockm]

"He was referring to the common name: Japanese holly. Only the Ilex crenata has that particular common name."

It's hard to tell exactly which he was referring to...I'd argue that crenata is NOT the only species with that particular "common" name. Depends where you ask. Asking the question here got more responses about serrata...Potayto, potahto... "Common names are always the most mixed up...

Ilex serrata is more common as bonsai than Ilex crenata and probably more amenable to bonsai treatment.

 

[Attila Soos]

Ilex serrata is more common as bonsai than Ilex crenata and probably more amenable to bonsai treatment.

That's definitely true. I would give anything to have one of those fat bulky trunks (and I don't mean MY mid-section). But all my searches for that common name yielded the "crenata". When it comes to names, I am a very particular, but that's just me.

Anyway, it's always good to expand the beginners' horizon with new names, as long as we don't create more confusion. In this case, we might say "Ilex crenata is what usually called Japanese holly, but you might want to check out the Ilex serrata, which is actually a better choice......blah blah blah".