Anyone familiar with Papaya trees? Need help w/ a top-damaged, multi-limb specimen and nowhere else to ask

[SU2]

I've been having a ton of trouble finding info and, given the nature of this situation, I suspect this is where I'm most-likely to find the answers I seek- I've been growing-out a papaya tree for a couple years (accent plant behind a bonsai-bench, have exposed its roots and everything, real cool specimen!) and, this past winter, a frost killed the growing-tip - but papayas don't do branches, they're just single-trunked trees, I thought it was dead when I found the top had died.

Shortly thereafter this thing started throwing buds all over, mostly concentrated in the middle but there must've been 25+ buds on that thing, and I was only able to find 1 pertinent piece of info online, a FL extension website (gov't/university url), that advised that, in such situations, you choose a new shoot as leader and support it until the tree's taken to it.

I love niwaki ('japanese style in-ground topiary' is a good description I think...wiki has a great page on it ) and, seeing an opportunity for a special papaya (ie, not a single-trunked papaya!), I rubbed-off every bud except for 3 (at ~60% of the tree's height) and they're growing-out well.

The problem is that, since it kept pushing more buds (and started to focus them towards the top of the trunk), and I just want to develop the 3 new shoots into 3 growing-tips/leaders, I did something I was going to wait longer to do- cut-off the trunk above the new 3 shoots I want. I figured it'd be fine but, after cutting, found something unexpected- this tree is hollow!!! There's a cavity that runs the whole length, so my idea of sealing the cut with Plumber's Putty suddenly didn't feel right....I don't want to leave the hollow wide-open, I expect that'd just invite bugs to live in there, water to accumulate, etc and kill the tree from the inside-out. At the same time, I'm unsure whether, on a perfect specimen, if there wasn't always a little opening at the top (maybe it's an air-exchange thing?)

So I'm unsure what on earth to do right now, I've sealed it up w/ painter's-tape as a temporary seal, part of me is thinking of just putting a golf-ball in the hole and then sealing the top w/ putty but I just don't know if that's needed to breathe....I didn't leave as much excess-height above the highest new 'leader' branch as I should've, so any excessive die-back will probably kill that shoot (I guess a 2-trunk papaya is still special but really want the 3 to survive!! I couldn't find a single image on Google of multi-trunked Papayas! And it's basically an 'accent plant' for my bonsai-display at this point, it sits directly behind a bench[probably why it grows so fast!] and, w/ 3 trunks + exposed roots, will be awesome- so really don't want to lose this guy!!)

Thanks for any help, I know it's not bonsai but pasting cuts / these scenarios aren't something I can think of anywhere else to ask (the generic gardening sites I know were unable to help, would love a reco for a good general gardening forum if anyone knows one )

Pics of the cavity, and pic of the tree itself (last pic- the tree's in the upper-left quadrant of the shot coming out of my mexican-sunflower patch, there's just so much green it all blends together lol, sorry for not having put a background to it but think it gives an idea of size and location of the cut-top // new-shoots)






Thanks a ton for any help on how to handle this, I love this tree and am psyched at the prospect of having a squatter, multi-trunked papaya - a rare sight - but w/ that hollow-trunk I've no idea how to treat/care for it :/

 

[JoeH]

I've had them broken in storms and don't do a thing for them, just let nature take its course. They just sprout out wherever they want to. Don't over think it again.

 

[SU2]

I've had them broken in storms and don't do a thing for them, just let nature take its course. They just sprout out wherever they want to. Don't over think it again.

I've already made the cut though, letting nature take its course now could equal it dying (because of the exposed center)

And you're saying you'd just let them sprout as much as they want? Do you have papayas with many growing-trunks? I'd really like to see some pics of that, I've never seen them and cannot find them on google-images...

(and you're saying "again", can't help but feel you're implying the 'you're touching your trees too-much' thing again - I get that I pruned the Ruby too-hard, it's still flourishing thankfully, but the last time you'd replied to me was after the pic of my pruned ilex (also flourishing now) to imply I was being too-aggressive in general / often, I still think that ilex was proper & you never replied to my post explaining why it was proper...I dono't want to over-do anything so I want to know where I'm wrong but "just let nature take its course" is poor husbandry in the context of this papaya, it's too late as I've already cut it and it's now got a gaping wound, I've gotta know whether it should/should not be sealed, but if I hadn't cut the top and had just rubbed-off shoots, leaving just a few, that is what you're supposed to do at least according to the FL IFAS Ext website:

Papaya plants are not pruned because their main growing point is terminal, and branched trees may not produce as well. However, as papaya plants mature and/or if they are exposed to environmental conditions that inhibit growth or if the main growing point is damage or killed, side shoots may grow. Selecting 1 or 2 of the most vigorous shoots and removing the others will facilitate growth and fruiting of the remaining shoots. Tying these side shoots to a stake will reduce the chance they may break off due to a heavy fruit load or high winds.

 

[Anthony]

Place a plastic bag over the wound on the outside of the trunk, bag goes down a few inches.
Stops water from getting in.
Then tie a few inches below and your Paw Paw, as we call Papaya
will be fine.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Aiki_Joker]

Will this likely die back to the shoots eventually Anthony? Then seal itself as the shoots thicken and merge with the trunk?

 

[rockm]

I've already made the cut though, letting nature take its course now could equal it dying (because of the exposed center)

And you're saying you'd just let them sprout as much as they want? Do you have papayas with many growing-trunks? I'd really like to see some pics of that, I've never seen them and cannot find them on google-images...

(and you're saying "again", can't help but feel you're implying the 'you're touching your trees too-much' thing again - I get that I pruned the Ruby too-hard, it's still flourishing thankfully, but the last time you'd replied to me was after the pic of my pruned ilex (also flourishing now) to imply I was being too-aggressive in general / often, I still think that ilex was proper & you never replied to my post explaining why it was proper...I dono't want to over-do anything so I want to know where I'm wrong but "just let nature take its course" is poor husbandry in the context of this papaya, it's too late as I've already cut it and it's now got a gaping wound, I've gotta know whether it should/should not be sealed, but if I hadn't cut the top and had just rubbed-off shoots, leaving just a few, that is what you're supposed to do at least according to the FL IFAS Ext website:

Dude, chill. You tend to obsess over simple stuff.

Read up on basics - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papaya

"The papaya is a small, sparsely branched plant, usually with a single stem growing from 5 to 10 m (16 to 33 ft) tall, with spirally arranged leaves confined to the top of the trunk."

Let the wound alone. Trees have been healing themselves for billions of years without plastic bags, golf balls or any other treatment from man. Leaving it be is the most uncomplicated, less stressful thing you can do at this point. Repeatedly chopping it back futzing around with the wound, etc. is going to lead no where good.

 

[JoeH]

^^^ Exactly. As I said, I've had them break in storms and they are just fine. A break is just a less refined cut.

 

[JoeH]

also, the side shoots will tend to break when they are overloaded with fruit.

 

[Anthony]

Unfortunately, the hole will fill with water and rot the plant..
Usually develops more holes and the chambers go.

You need to know on our side the Paw Paw [ papaya] lives for
up to 10 / 15 years.
Can be quite tall, if I visit Forest Reserve Pool, I will image an
immortal papaya, with several branches.


Aki,
normally when this happens, the plastic bag technique fixes everything.

It is the weight of the fruit you have to watch for.
Normally bamboo rods to support.
Also depends on fruit, the Japanese hybrid - Red Lady - is heavy
The native papaya is about the size of a tennis ball and doesn't give as much
trouble.

However the native is also often bitterish, but that is the one you eat or drink
for protective properties.
The - Red Lady - is basically sugar.

Been growing Papayas for years and drinking the ground up pulp and skin.

Well whatever you do SU2, I hope you get some tasty fruit,
Good Day
Anthony

 

[SU2]

Place a plastic bag over the wound on the outside of the trunk, bag goes down a few inches.
Stops water from getting in.
Then tie a few inches below and your Paw Paw, as we call Papaya
will be fine.
Good Day
Anthony

Great idea, can't believe it wasn't my first thought I feel silly now lol ;p Thanks, will do that for the time being, I just can't imagine leaving such a gaping-wound in a plant it seems like playing russian-roulette I mean I'm not disputing that people have had them snap and survive w/o intervention but that doesn't mean it always happens that way or even that that's the common way (it could be that 9 out of 10 die when the core is exposed, for all I know!)

 

[rockm]

Great idea, can't believe it wasn't my first thought I feel silly now lol ;p Thanks, will do that for the time being, I just can't imagine leaving such a gaping-wound in a plant it seems like playing russian-roulette I mean I'm not disputing that people have had them snap and survive w/o intervention but that doesn't mean it always happens that way or even that that's the common way (it could be that 9 out of 10 die when the core is exposed, for all I know!)

Oh Good Lord. If every tree that broke in a storm died, the species would be extinct. I would be very cautious of assuming drastic, unnatural intervention is a life and death issue. the "common" way for trees to survive trauma is to heal themselves and grow around the damage.

 

[SU2]

also, the side shoots will tend to break when they are overloaded with fruit.

I'd pull fruit, though I'd read that you've gotta stake them if they're side shoots - pictures aside I'm still curious just how many growing-tips you've had a papaya maintain, have you gotten >5? Like actively-growing for a year, not just a spurt of buds that grow then die of course! Am starting to think I should've left more than 3, I did that after reading the '1 or 2' in the FL guide I'd linked (and finding zero other info for how to handle this!), I figured 3 may've been pushing it....if I could've kept 10 I'd have much rather done that, this thing has awesome buttressing/exposed roots and, being shorter w/ more trunks, is now an even better accent-plant behind one of my benches - I'm unsure if it'll try to bud any more but will certainly let more come out / grow if you tell me you've had >3 primaries that lasted! I've just never ever seen that, and cannot find any when googling, so was having a lot of trouble picturing some 5-10+ branched papaya!

 

[SU2]

Dude, chill. You tend to obsess over simple stuff.

Read up on basics - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papaya

"The papaya is a small, sparsely branched plant, usually with a single stem growing from 5 to 10 m (16 to 33 ft) tall, with spirally arranged leaves confined to the top of the trunk."

Let the wound alone. Trees have been healing themselves for billions of years without plastic bags, golf balls or any other treatment from man. Leaving it be is the most uncomplicated, less stressful thing you can do at this point. Repeatedly chopping it back futzing around with the wound, etc. is going to lead no where good.

Oh Good Lord. If every tree that broke in a storm died, the species would be extinct. I would be very cautious of assuming drastic, unnatural intervention is a life and death issue. the "common" way for trees to survive trauma is to heal themselves and grow around the damage.

Haha Rock I knew you'd say something like this I'm not obsessing I just want to keep this papaya alive! I know that nature doesn't go in and intervene- that doesn't mean all trees survive serious traumas! As @Anthony said (which was my immediate concern the second I cut the thing) "Unfortunately, the hole will fill with water and rot the plant..", that makes sense to me and was what I was concerned about- this is the type of intervention that I can never understand anyone having issue with, I mean yes the original cut you can say that was dumb all day but, once cut and facing that hole, it does seem to be the case that it's no bueno and needs rectifying for the tree to survive!

Dude, chill.

I am chill My posts come across far more serious than I intend them to and I can't figure out *why*, I'm a goofy person and almost never get riled-up over things, I don't know why I come across so different in text (it's not just you who's said things that give me this indication I'm coming across as far more worried/concerned than I really am), guess I just chalk it up to tones not conveying properly through text!

 

[SU2]

Unfortunately, the hole will fill with water and rot the plant..
Usually develops more holes and the chambers go.

You need to know on our side the Paw Paw [ papaya] lives for
up to 10 / 15 years.
Can be quite tall, if I visit Forest Reserve Pool, I will image an
immortal papaya, with several branches.


Aki,
normally when this happens, the plastic bag technique fixes everything.

It is the weight of the fruit you have to watch for.
Normally bamboo rods to support.
Also depends on fruit, the Japanese hybrid - Red Lady - is heavy
The native papaya is about the size of a tennis ball and doesn't give as much
trouble.

However the native is also often bitterish, but that is the one you eat or drink
for protective properties.
The - Red Lady - is basically sugar.

Been growing Papayas for years and drinking the ground up pulp and skin.

Well whatever you do SU2, I hope you get some tasty fruit,
Good Day
Anthony

Was afraid of / suspecting that (that the hole would just fill-up with water/rot/kill it) Would absolutely love seeing that picture, I must've tried 4 search-terms in google-images trying to find a multi-trunked specimen and failed, would really love to see a pic!!

I'd been planning to just remove fruits as they appear but maybe I'll keep some next time, it's been ages since I've had papaya!!

 

[rockm]

Haha Rock I knew you'd say something like this I'm not obsessing I just want to keep this papaya alive! I know that nature doesn't go in and intervene- that doesn't mean all trees survive serious traumas! As @Anthony said (which was my immediate concern the second I cut the thing) "Unfortunately, the hole will fill with water and rot the plant..", that makes sense to me and was what I was concerned about- this is the type of intervention that I can never understand anyone having issue with, I mean yes the original cut you can say that was dumb all day but, once cut and facing that hole, it does seem to be the case that it's no bueno and needs rectifying for the tree to survive!

I am chill My posts come across far more serious than I intend them to and I can't figure out *why*, I'm a goofy person and almost never get riled-up over things, I don't know why I come across so different in text (it's not just you who's said things that give me this indication I'm coming across as far more worried/concerned than I really am), guess I just chalk it up to tones not conveying properly through text!

You are hardly chill about this stuff. You tend to believe everything requires some kind of dramatic "Fix"-- They don't, regardless of offhand "it's gonna rot if you don't plug the hole" remarks. Any actual EXAMPLES of that happening, or is it just someone making a broad statement? If you're going to freak out over what is probably a typical injury suffered by every tree species on the planet without seeing actual proof it can happen, then you're wasting a lot of time and energy.

I don't have any "issue" with "this type of intervention"--you wanna fill a hole with putty, clay, expanding foam, I don't really care. In my experience, repeated assumptions that such fixes require DEFCON 6 approaches or the plant will die, usually wind up killing the plant by other means...

 

[JoeH]

I'd pull fruit, though I'd read that you've gotta stake them if they're side shoots - pictures aside I'm still curious just how many growing-tips you've had a papaya maintain, have you gotten >5? Like actively-growing for a year, not just a spurt of buds that grow then die of course! Am starting to think I should've left more than 3, I did that after reading the '1 or 2' in the FL guide I'd linked (and finding zero other info for how to handle this!), I figured 3 may've been pushing it....if I could've kept 10 I'd have much rather done that, this thing has awesome buttressing/exposed roots and, being shorter w/ more trunks, is now an even better accent-plant behind one of my benches - I'm unsure if it'll try to bud any more but will certainly let more come out / grow if you tell me you've had >3 primaries that lasted! I've just never ever seen that, and cannot find any when googling, so was having a lot of trouble picturing some 5-10+ branched papaya!

I'm sure I've had 6-7 come out of broken stalk, didn't do a thing to the tree, just let nature take care of it. Johnny Papayaseed isn't traipsing thru the jungle treating all the wounded trees out there so why should I? The 2009 freezes finally did mind in. My last one that Irma knocked down was finished off by the last freeze in Jan

 

[miker]

Papayas readily self-seed and pop up everywhere if given half a chance. When I lived in Winter Park, near Orlando (until recently) I noticed they appeared to be naturalizing as I saw them in many yards and I had one pop up in my yard randomly. That one became a cluster of like 8 and I am sure that they would have been all over the yard in another 5 years. In a non-arid climate where most winters have only a light freeze or two, these will get some damage most winters but grow out of it in the spring. These are herbaceous and not a suitable species for bonsai (as I am sure has already been said, have not had a chance to read the whole thread).

 

[JoeH]

Papayas readily self-seed and pop up everywhere if given half a chance. When I lived in Winter Park, near Orlando (until recently) I noticed they appeared to be naturalizing as I saw them in many yards and I had one pop up in my yard randomly. That one became a cluster of like 8 and I am sure that they would have been all over the yard in another 5 years. In a non-arid climate where most winters have only a light freeze or two, these will get some damage most winters but grow out of it in the spring. These are herbaceous and not a suitable species for bonsai (as I am sure has already been said, have not had a chance to read the whole thread).

I keep expecting it to be added to the invasive list here, the freezes are the only thing that controls it.

 

[JoeH]

here is one that broke off in one of the storms this winter at least a month ago. Little dieback on top and shoots everywhere.