Anyone good with investing in this thread?

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Shogun610

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This all sounds like a government conspiracy to monetize everything under the sun. Technically, every transaction is a taxable event and you are responsible to pay taxes on income and gains. The IRS can't keep up with the cash economy of everyday transactions which are not booked by some company, but they'd like to. Janet Yellen would like an electronic file including all transactions for every person who cycles $10k through a bank account so she could track the underground economy. Computers could do that overnight, every night. So the local kid that cuts lawns for $15 skates on paying taxes because he gets paid in dribbles, but has a bank account to cash checks. He nets a couple thousand a summer and his account is too small to pay the IRS to check it out. That is, until a sort of his customer's accounts turns up the payments made by his six customer's that flowed into his account. The IRS can send him a bill for unpaid taxes & penalties without an agent lifting a finger. The city & state can piggyback on that electronic file, too. The taxpayer can always dispute the tax, all you have to do is jump through a couple dozen hoops and you're home free, maybe. Babysitters, the local handyman, snow shovelers, the minor elements that keep society on an even keel will get priced out of the market just like the kids that used to work in every shop. Every business used to have a kid that ran errands, swept the floor, did odd jobs working after school for not a lot of money. You can't hire them anymore because you have to pay Workers Comp, state and federal Unemployment Insurance, Medical benefits, and the minimum wage so it's not worth it to hire a kid, you just have the workers do it themselves. It's inefficient and most would rather not, it's nice having a kid to do bullshit jobs. So ambitious poor kids can't get those kinds of jobs anymore, and society loses the opportunity to train kids how to work, how to get along with fellow workers, earn some money and manage their money, time, and life in general.

Create an electronic file of NFT ownership and the same process will evolve. Every time ownership turns over, the gov wants its cut. You think that you are buying proof of insurable value? That's a definite maybe, -if you buy from a certifiable seller, probably. But if you think that the insurance company is going to take your word for it that your bonsai was worth $2k, I got big news for you. They will insist that you come up with written estimates from reputable sources, and fellow club members with no commercial history may not pass that bar. There's a lot to be said for the cash economy, -unless you're a government looking for revenue. The gov will vote yea on electronic tracking, every time.
You’re right … when you talk about it like that… hmm again it was just an idea but i wanted to vet it out. I don’t want it to be a community thing because it was more of a way to claim value on items owned as asset like how art is appraised stamped and notarized
 

Pitoon

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Good luck to those that want to incorporate NFTs into the art of bonsai...........more power to you!

One can add all they want to an "object" but it will never change the object for what it is. If you buy a tree that is/was listed for $10K for only $8K........do you say you have a $10K or $8K tree?

Price is subjective.......an item is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.
 

Forsoothe!

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Bro calm down……. It’s just a discussion can’t we have that without emotion
I don't tell you how to speak or convey expressions of your feelings, and I take direction poorly. [EDIT] Removed the controversial content [/EDIT]
 
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Shogun610

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Good luck to those that want to incorporate NFTs into the art of bonsai...........more power to you!

One can add all they want to an "object" but it will never change the object for what it is. If you buy a tree that is/was listed for $10K for only $8K........do you say you have a $10K or $8K tree?

Price is subjective.......an item is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.
You’re right again this is only a discussion I wanted to raise a idea for nothing more. But it’s interesting how you say price value it’s like real estate if you buy a 300K home but it was only appraised at 250K what’s the true value.
 

August44

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I think there might be a bunch of us that are sorry too...that you even brought it up!
 

Shogun610

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I think there might be a bunch of us that are sorry too...that you even brought it up!
You know what … hide behind your computer screen. I was referring to the negative reactions I was making based purely off an idea / discussion. If you want to be an old curmudgeon go ahead.
 

Wood

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I don't tell you how to speak or convey expressions of your feelings, and I take direction poorly.

Are you actually implying that the world was better when Black people were called Negros? I must be misinterpreting your remark

Also, 1984 is about using the force of government to censor and police someone's thoughts, not society acknowledging the difficulties of gender dysphoria and systemic racism
 
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Hartinez

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Seemed like a harmless enough of a discussion and unlike many other threads, was started around another way of monetizing and thinking of Bonsai and how they are presented. Makes no sense for it to go the direction it did. But then again, I’m rarely surprised anymore.
 

leatherback

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? I can't right-click-save my way into your exclusive bonsai club, can I?
Well.. there is an old-fashioned way. Membership fees.

I still do not know why I would need a computer to own my bonsai. Guess it is me. I know where my tree comes from. I buy a tree because I like it. I will not pay more because X styled it. I buy it for me. And if the tree was styled by the doorman of the local supermarket, that does not make it a better/worse tree. But then again, I am not a guru-follower kinda person.
 

leatherback

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So effectively you turn all property in a rent-forever object, just like software is now no longer yours once you pay, no you pay for having a working copy into perpetuity. Really.. What happened with, I give you money; you give me product. We part ways and you have no control over your product anyore, as I paid you to get ownership.
 

PeaceLoveBonsai

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First of all, I appreciate @Shogun610 for starting the discussion. I think this stuff is super interesting.

Second, I'm not sure why NFTs and crypto elicit such a strong opinion for so many. I mean, "you do you and I'll be me", right? It's just some discussions going on here, we're not trying to cure cancer.

Third, and this is just where I'm coming from, I think the use case for attaching NFTs to individual trees in a mass way is a difficult proposition and I'm not sure how much value it adds to either the artist or the owner. So in that case, I'm very close to @Bonsai Nut and @leatherback But, I think it deserves continued reflection.

Fourth, my main point is that NFTs have many, many use cases that go beyond attaching a blockchain address to a physical tree and some of those will fit into the bonsai world, IMHO. And in those cases, there will be a win for the sellers and the buyers. This is happening already in other parts of the world, like sneakers and music. Sellers of NFTs are winning and the buyers are getting value as well. So it's a win/win situation. I think the same can be done for bonsai and I'm hard at work trying to make it happen:)
 

Shogun610

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So effectively you turn all property in a rent-forever object, just like software is now no longer yours once you pay, no you pay for having a working copy into perpetuity. Really.. What happened with, I give you money; you give me product. We part ways and you have no control over your product anyore, as I paid you to get ownership.
No, look again it’s just a discussion. My idea was more centered around, the owner of those bonsai would be able to financially claim them as assets, and accurately appraised. Say you go to sell that Tree for whatever reason, or want to claim it on insurance in case it could ever get stolen or whatever , hell even as a reason your heirs or collections to continue and care for that bonsai when you pass or can’t take care of it anymore…you’d have a electronic notarized document to show its history, age etc. AGAIN this is just an idea nothing more than something to back up the time , resources and effort this art/ craft takes besides the regular methods to display. Not about a collective or a own nothing mentality. Or like something fun kinda like sports cards,”the NFT pack drop on all National Bonsai exhibition trees” idk what the visceral reactions are all about. Just a interesting discussion on diversifying a portfolio and having Bonsai in that conversation like a lot of art is.
 
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Shogun610

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So.. it is not OK to say you do not think there is value to it, and it would not add somehing, or even reduce?
It’s 100% ok , to not agree I don’t give a shit. I even shifted the idea around to what my position is now. It’s whatever it’s …just an idea.
 
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