Anyone good with investing in this thread?

[PeaceLoveBonsai]

So.. it is not OK to say you do not think there is value to it, and it would not add somehing, or even reduce?

You're not the issue, my friend. Yours have been a good discussion and good points. Its others that have gotten a bit out of control that i'm alluding to...

 

[Bonsai Nut]

holy shit I’m sorry I brought this up. Noted to not bring up again.

I'm not sorry you brought it up. It is an interesting tech and like many tech ideas there is a chance people will abuse it before they figure out how to use it

One example of "abuse" that raises red flags for me is the concept of a stream of payments to the NFT creator. In other words, each time the NFT changes hands, the original creator gets a small % of the proceeds. The concept seems benign enough - an artist gets paid a small amount of $$$ each time their property changes hands. I could see how this could easily turn into a Ponzi scheme of sorts - where you require people to buy into the NFT stream to become members, and they earn fees as they pass on their NFT's to others.

Another abuse is people stealing other people's property, and selling it bundled as an NFT. In one of the links above (which I found amusing due to the ham-handed way in which it was executed) someone took public domain artwork from a museum and bundled it as an NFT - and then ignorantly minted it at peak hours where it ended up costing them $1200, LOL. No word on whether they were able to sell anything.

Note that when I criticize the idea, I'm not saying don't do it. Do it, make a million dollars, and come tell me how you did it, and I will cheer your success! It just isn't for me, right now, as I understand it.

FWIW, when I reference selling virtual property in 2001, it was sort of the primal age of the concept. People started by selling game accounts to each other, because some accounts with serious game time invested in them were more advanced and had more gadgets or toys or powers. Next people started selling virtual items to each other - using real cash. Abuse was rife, people were constantly getting ripped off, and Sony had to lower the boom and make it clear that ALL virtual property and accounts remained the property of Sony.... and you were more or less paying a fee to use the account, and that access could be revoked at any time for any number of reasons. Since then online games have become much more sophisticated in how they approach the idea of virtual property, and the transfer of virtual goods. And now the world of virtual goods has jumped out of games and has come full circle so that virtual property is being sold back and forth outside of any proprietary virtual space. I'm not sure it has quite made the leap to the real world... at least not yet.

 

[Shogun610]

I'm not sorry you brought it up. It is an interesting tech and like many tech ideas there is a chance people will abuse it before they figure out how to use it

One example of "abuse" that raises red flags for me is the concept of a stream of payments to the NFT creator. In other words, each time the NFT changes hands, the original creator gets a small % of the proceeds. The concept seems benign enough - an artist gets paid a small amount of $$$ each time their property changes hands. I could see how this could easily turn into a Ponzi scheme of sorts - where you require people to buy into the NFT stream to become members, and they earn fees as they pass on their NFT's to others.

Another abuse is people stealing other people's property, and selling it bundled as an NFT. In one of the links above (which I found amusing due to the ham-handed way in which it was executed) someone took public domain artwork from a museum and bundled it as an NFT - and then ignorantly minted it at peak hours where it ended up costing them $1200, LOL. No word on whether they were able to sell anything.

Note that when I criticize the idea, I'm not saying don't do it. Do it, make a million dollars, and come tell me how you did it, and I will cheer your success! It just isn't for me, right now, as I understand it.

FWIW, when I reference selling virtual property in 2001, it was sort of the primal age of the concept. People started by selling game accounts to each other, because some accounts with serious game time invested in them were more advanced and had more gadgets or toys or powers. Next people started selling virtual items to each other - using real cash. Abuse was rife, people were constantly getting ripped off, and Sony had to lower the boom and make it clear that ALL virtual property and accounts remained the property of Sony.... and you were more or less paying a fee to use the account, and that access could be revoked at any time for any number of reasons. Since then online games have become much more sophisticated in how they approach the idea of virtual property, and the transfer of virtual goods. And now the world of virtual goods has jumped out of games and has come full circle so that virtual property is being sold back and forth outside of any proprietary virtual space. I'm not sure it has quite made the leap to the real world... at least not yet.

I respect the feedback.. I wouldn’t ever want to have anything in Bonsai be related to making tons of money. it was more of a way to electronically capture the value and as a documentation. Kinda as a way to share the value of that investment one makes.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Are you actually implying that the world was better when Black people were called Negros? I must be misinterpreting your remark

Also, 1984 is about using the force of government to censor and police someone's thoughts, not society acknowledging the difficulties of gender dysphoria and systemic racism

Patriotism used to be the refuge of a scoundrel, but now it's race-baiting. When you don't have anything intelligent to add to a conversation, imply that the correspondent is a racist. You are part and parcel of the cancel culture, -a despicable lot. The only systemic racism present in America is that in the minds of people like you, little minds of little people who see hate everywhere because you assume that the rest of the world thinks like you do. They do not.

 

[Shogun610]

@Forsoothe! what the actual fuck does any of your last two posts have anything to do with the theme of this thread. My mind is blown.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Patriotism used to be the refuge of a scoundrel, but now it's race-baiting. When you don't have anything intelligent to add to a conversation, imply that the correspondent is a racist. You are part and parcel of the cancel culture, -a despicable lot. The only systemic racism present in America is that in the minds of people like you, little minds of little people who see hate everywhere because you assume that the rest of the world thinks like you do. They do not.

Guys really? Are we going to get into racism on a thread about NFT's? Please don't make me start deleting content because of wildly divergent subject matter.

 

[Forsoothe!]

You’re right again this is only a discussion I wanted to raise a idea for nothing more. But it’s interesting how you say price value it’s like real estate if you buy a 300K home but it was only appraised at 250K what’s the true value.

A home is a good example of things hard to value, especially in a disturbed marketplace. I bought a home in 2007, put the same amount in as remodeling, and the 2008 the tax roles were adjusted downward to reflect the housing crash and my newly remodeled home was listed by the township as 7% less than I paid for it. I was pleased as punch that I would pay taxes based upon that new, lower value. Homes almost always sell for more than the taxable value, so they are a good example of things being worth exactly what somebody else will pay you for them. If a transaction is not in the immediate offing, than it's an estimate.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

I don't tell you how to speak or convey expressions of your feelings, and I take direction poorly. The cancel culture started 60 years ago when Colored people didn't like being called that, they were Negros. Then they didn't like that and wanted to be called Blacks. Then they changed to African-Americans. Polite society acquiesced and called them by the nomenclature they wished. It has gone down hill from there and we're now told people can choose their pronouns and force others to speak correctly, by their standards, or lack thereof. Ask me what the fuck I think about the Queen's English being contaminated by the 1984 mentality run amuck.

Aaaand placed on the ignore list....

 

[TimberLakers]

I'm not sorry you brought it up. It is an interesting tech and like many tech ideas there is a chance people will abuse it before they figure out how to use it

One example of "abuse" that raises red flags for me is the concept of a stream of payments to the NFT creator. In other words, each time the NFT changes hands, the original creator gets a small % of the proceeds. The concept seems benign enough - an artist gets paid a small amount of $$$ each time their property changes hands. I could see how this could easily turn into a Ponzi scheme of sorts - where you require people to buy into the NFT stream to become members, and they earn fees as they pass on their NFT's to others.

Another abuse is people stealing other people's property, and selling it bundled as an NFT. In one of the links above (which I found amusing due to the ham-handed way in which it was executed) someone took public domain artwork from a museum and bundled it as an NFT - and then ignorantly minted it at peak hours where it ended up costing them $1200, LOL. No word on whether they were able to sell anything.

Note that when I criticize the idea, I'm not saying don't do it. Do it, make a million dollars, and come tell me how you did it, and I will cheer your success! It just isn't for me, right now, as I understand it.

FWIW, when I reference selling virtual property in 2001, it was sort of the primal age of the concept. People started by selling game accounts to each other, because some accounts with serious game time invested in them were more advanced and had more gadgets or toys or powers. Next people started selling virtual items to each other - using real cash. Abuse was rife, people were constantly getting ripped off, and Sony had to lower the boom and make it clear that ALL virtual property and accounts remained the property of Sony.... and you were more or less paying a fee to use the account, and that access could be revoked at any time for any number of reasons. Since then online games have become much more sophisticated in how they approach the idea of virtual property, and the transfer of virtual goods. And now the world of virtual goods has jumped out of games and has come full circle so that virtual property is being sold back and forth outside of any proprietary virtual space. I'm not sure it has quite made the leap to the real world... at least not yet.

You've clearly done your homework good sir.

It's a really interesting time. Everything you said is true.

Lot of potential to make money. Equally as much potential to be a huge value destroyer for a majority of the market.

It's not EASY money either. Everyone has an idea.

 

[MrWunderful]

Guys really? Are we going to get into racism on a thread about NFT's? Please don't make me start deleting content because of wildly divergent subject matter.

You should. Its bullshit that a post referring to black people like that is even allowed to stay up. Toxic right wing cancer is starting to infect all corners of the internet, including this site Greg. Stop its before its too late. Im all for people having the freedom to spew hateful garbage if they want (even though its terrible) but keep it the fuck off of a site about bonsai.

 

[FinnLakk]

Think of it like the stamp on the bottom of a bonsai pot. If the stamp is of a well-known potter, perhaps from 100 years ago, it indicates a potential value apart from the intrinsic / functional value of the pot as something that looks pretty and holds your tree.

A bonsai NFT (broadly defined) might include things like a history of who owned the tree, a photo record of the tree over the years, a "stamp" by a well-known bonsai master saying "I styled this tree and it has my seal of approval", a history of important awards the tree has won, etc. That assumes that these things are important to you. If you look at your trees in a vacuum, and just admire them for what they are, it isn't going to matter.

Thanks for the explanation! I feel I now understand how it could be used in bonsai however I'm not really sure I understand the whole NFT thing as a whole

I've tried looking into it but don't really understand blockchains or crypto either... My understanding was block chains were a set of computers hooked together( via internet) to work out complex equations for big companies and they'd pay you in crypto. If that's not right or close I haven't a clue, and certainly none the wiser as to where NFTs come into the equation. Or what they are, or why they are any more valuable than any other unique piece of art as surely any piece of art is.

On the whole I think that idea is really quite cool however I do also side with the cash side/not having the government know everything about everything arguement a little. I would love to have a list of who's hands my trees had passed through and however many hundreds of years old my pot was however I'm a broke ass bitch using seed trays and my own sub par material, maybe when I win the lottery

 

[Lorax7]

I would like the 15 minutes of my life that I wasted on reading this thread back, please. The blockchain is like veganism or CrossFit: it’s turns otherwise ordinary people into evangelists that can’t help but corner unsuspecting people at dinner parties and torture them with the most boring, pedantic conversation possible. I’d rather read Vogon poetry.

 

[Shogun610]

I would like the 15 minutes of my life that I wasted on reading this thread back, please. The blockchain is like veganism or CrossFit: it’s turns otherwise ordinary people into evangelists that can’t help but corner unsuspecting people at dinner parties and torture them with the most boring, pedantic conversation possible. I’d rather read Vogon poetry.

… you seem pretty pedantic. It will be ok these things are called ideas or conversation….That’s it

 

[August44]

Can we talk about bonsai related items please. I am on here to learn more about bonsai and I'm sure there is somewhere on the net that would welcome you folks with your big words and discussions/conversations that are boring to me and not what I joined this forum for. Thank you!

 

[August44]

You know what … hide behind your computer screen. I was referring to the negative reactions I was making based purely off an idea / discussion. If you want to be an old curmudgeon go ahead.

And I'm not hiding behind anything! My picture and my name are right in front of your face dumb ass.

 

[TimberLakers]

There's already at least one bonsai NFT collection.

Bonsai bonanza as Zenft studio sells out $2 million NFT drop in one hour

One small studio captured the attention of whales and the support of a community with its latest NFT drop.

cointelegraph.com

Those pieces now start around $400-500 apiece, roughly 2x what they minted for in June. https://opensea.io/collection/bonsai-zenft

Folks already making money on digital bonsai. Would just be cool to see an actual bonsai professional swoop in.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Wow, that's some toxic racist garbage right there...

Rather, that is TRUTH and HONESTY!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

There's already at least one bonsai NFT collection.

Bonsai bonanza as Zenft studio sells out $2 million NFT drop in one hour

One small studio captured the attention of whales and the support of a community with its latest NFT drop.

cointelegraph.com

Those pieces now start around $400-500 apiece, roughly 2x what they minted for in June. https://opensea.io/collection/bonsai-zenft

Folks already making money on digital bonsai. Would just be cool to see an actual bonsai professional swoop in.

Digital bonsai images. Question, are these images VR, or are they photos of trees that actually exist? Brings to mind the "This is not a Pipe" painting at Art Institute of Chicago.

 

[Bnana]

I simply do not see the benefit of cryptos or NFT. There are simpler method to do the same things. To me they seem solutions logging for a problem.

In the case of cryptos there is a speculative component and they are popular for criminal activities including hostage software. They also result in a huge waste of energy. So the world would be a better place without cryptos.

@Bonsai Nut Can't you just delete the racist rants that show up regularly. They have no place in this forum.

 

[WimA]

While many of the posts have doubted the value of the proposition of the OP, let me try to suggest alternatives. From a general scope, I agree that digital tracking of physical assets does not make much sense for something as organic as a bonsai tree (e.g. large potential for fraud)
a. In case we are considering 'assets', people often looking at insured value. This would give your trees gives you a documented valuation.
b. In case we are talking about 'heritage', 'history', ... this is typically done by a signed letter in the world of arts and antiques (by either the former owner or a reliable third party witness).
I don't see any reason why these two principles could not be applied to bonsai