Anyone Home Schooling or Familiar?

Bonsai Nut

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View attachment 397675

It's not your freedoms at risk when wearing a mask...it's the freedoms of those around you.
Two comments:

(1) This cartoon has it backwards. In the second image, the person peeing needs to be the one wearing the pants :) Wearing pants does NOTHING to protect you. It protects people around you from getting peed on :) I was in Costco today and saw a lot of elderly folks wearing paper surgical masks. Were they unvaccinated and thought they might have been exposed to the virus - so that they were wearing masks to protect other people? Or were they ignorant of the fact that paper surgical masks do nothing to protect you? I assume the later... but don't really know.

(2) I agree to a point. Certainly the government has the right to curtail freedoms in the name of public safety. The most obvious example is when the police arrests someone because they are a danger to themselves or others. But another example would be an automobile speed limit. Just because you might want to drive 200 mph in a fancy sports car does not give you the right to do so... since we as society have decided that it is better for us all to agree to drive slower so that we limit the number and severity of speed related accidents.

I think it is reasonable to say "get vaccinated, or wear a mask in public" since I don't consider wearing a mask particularly onerous, and now that vaccines are broadly available - for free, no less - I think you have two easy options to chose between. Honestly, if I were king of the US, I might be tempted to be even more conservative. I probably would have tied at least some of the pandemic cash payments into getting vaccinated, and I would have required states to cap ICU beds for non-vaccinated covid patients so that beds remained available for other emergency cases. I think it is pretty hypocritical to refuse a vaccine, and then expect $100,000's of free emergency medical care if you get sick. But I'm not king :)
 

Cadillactaste

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I am overjoyed that you don't have me on ignore!

It is hard to express in these texts....

My respect for your family.

Sorce
(((HUGS))) Just trying to get through life. We were facing some lows...I've triggers...I try and avoid for the most part. Doing better...Have a blessed day.
 

HorseloverFat

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Here, there are a few, reputable online schools which correlate with local “campuses”... ours is in Appleton... no video-conferencing.. parents can be as involved as they’d like to be... customized schedules... it’s been working nicely.
 

sorce

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. I think it is pretty hypocritical to refuse a vaccine, and then expect $100,000's of free emergency medical care if you get sick

I agree. If I get it, which I probably already have, I'd do my part to not infect others and die of it means die. (Not gonna happen)

But this is where the problem lies....

Personal Responsibility of course.

But then....they have the ability to give us valid and accurate information to aid people in making good decisions. They have not done this. So we owe the reasonably confused person something.

They're are numbskulls IMO.

Do I believe greed has the ability to destroy even the best thinkers....yes ..of course it can.

So we go back to following the money, and it lands in the hands of liars. Outright clear as day liars.

All one needs to do is watch a couple videos on lie tells, then you notice Jen Sacky flipping her hair when she lies each time.

Meh....

My first post in regards to this was "the stupid disease", the context of that truth changed but it's still true.

Flu me up.

If people are really concerned about their neighbors, they would care to change Drivers licence tests.

Sorce
 

LittleDingus

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It's to show that it IS political, not my politics, theirs.

Huh...this is exactly what I was talking about. Change the argument to something that is completely irrelevant to change the terms of engagement. Politics is another argument. This argument is societal.

Why should we trust those people?

Who are "those people"? My wife is a physician. I'm a physicist/engineer. I've read the research. I've discussed it with my wife. I have a pretty solid grasp of the fluid dynamics and what's happening behind a mask. I also have a pretty decent grasp of physiology and what is happening in the lungs and immune system.

But even without that knowledge, the numbers are pretty clear:

Reported number of people who have died due to wearing a mask: 0 (that I am aware of anyway...list a source if your numbers differ)
Number of children with brain damage due to excess CO2 from wearing a mask: 0...lungs don't work that way. They expel CO2, not absorb it.
Number of individuals with brain damage due to lack of oxygen when using a mask: likely non-zero but would need to see the data to know if those that did were due to improper usage/mask materials. But not significant...unless you can produce a credible source that states otherwise?
Number of reported Covid cases: 225M+ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:COVID-19_pandemic_data
Number of Covid deaths: 4.6M+
Number of Covid vaccine doses administered: 5.7B+ https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=OWID_WRL
Number of Covid vaccine deaths: I could not find a worldwide number here. The CDC states "More than 375 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 7, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,439 reports of death (0.0020%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. " The US dosage administered is of the same order of magnitude (375M vs 255M) as the worldwide Covid case number yet the reported negative outcomes are several orders of magnitude lower than negative Covid outcomes (7439 vs 4.6M) https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

Much of that data is worldwide data. Had I cared to dig a little deeper, I'm sure I could have found non-CDC data on vaccine doses vs deaths as well...but, frankly, do your own research. But, being worldwide reported data...this is NOT US politics at play here. Think a little...

They want you to believe it's to save your neighbor because they know we hold that concern greater than the concern for ourselves.

Bullshit. *I* want you to believe it's to save your neighbor because I *AM* your neighbor and I'm tired of people dying because they care more about politics than each other...or working incredibly long, hard hours trying to keep people people who care more for themselves than others from dying. The next time my wife has to explain to someone's next of kin that their family member died from what all data suggests is a highly preventable death, I'll be sure to call you to break the news instead. You can explain how it's "their" politics...not "yours".

They flip-flop. I haven't.

This one realy does piss me off because it shows how short sighted and ego-centric way to much of the population really is. Yes, 100%, the CDC and WHO suggested...at the beginning of the pandemic...that the general populous NOT buy up and use all the N95 masks! They were needed for front line healthcare workers who had to manage Covid patients daily! Joe Random was not very likely to encounter Covid back then...my wife's hospital, on the other hand, has the regional hospital all Covid patients were transferred to in an attempt to help quarantine the population. Doctors were rationing N95 masks...using them for full days and sometimes several days...trying to sanitize them for re-use...it was a nightmare. Once research came out that certain types of cloth masks were highly effective...and the supply chain started ramping up for N95 mask production, the CDC did change their recommendation. This is just one example where they've "flip-flopped" but in every case, there were reasons born out by a new understanding of a novel situation or a new set of tools or some adjustment in some other aspect of society that allowed for the change.

Politicians did what politicians do...they capitalized to further their own agendas...ignore them. "Your politics" is every bit as guilty as "their politics". My arguments are not based on either side.

The fact that you are calling it the medias name, "horse dewormer", is only proof that I am less in an echo chamber than yourself.

Bullshit. This is a deflection to reframe the argument on your terms.

Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic drug that is used to treat river blindness and intestinal roundworm infection in humans. To my knowledge, that is the ONLY approved usage in humans. For a physician to use it otherwise opens the physician up to legal action for negligence were there a negative outcome.

It IS used as a de-wormer in livestock. That's not media...it's the label!

Inkedimage_LI.jpg

Ivermectin is an anti-parasite medicine. It works by

"Ivermectin stimulates excessive release of neurotransmitters in the peripheral nervous system of parasites. It is thought to work by paralysing the parasite or inactivating the parasite gut. In humans the neurotransmitters acted on by ivermectin are in the brain. A protective barrier, called the blood-brain barrier, blocks ivermectin from reaching the human brain."

I specifically picked this source because it is from 2014...well before Covid...and it was written by a non-US physician. Do remember that when you read the article: https://dermnetnz.org/topics/ivermectin

Like the whole, "Oklahoma hospitals are backed up with Ivermectin poison victims, making gunshot victims not get treated" propaganda.

Debunked by nursing staff at the hospitals, and the sheriff who said they have had One instance of gun violence the entire year.

I love this argument! The "other side" lied...so our lies are truer!!! Makes a ton of sense.

Or is the argument that you found one case that wasn't true so therefor EVERY case must not be true?!? That's a great one too! I once choked on a grape so every grape is trying to kill me! If you are as enlightened as you like to pretend...you'd move beyond burning the orchard over a few rotten apples. There's no critical thought here...only tribalism.

NOTE: I am not refuting the story. I'm refuting the logic behind this childlike overgeneralization of pointing out one counter example to refute all examples just because the one fits your personal beliefs...while the others do not.

Why are you so angry?

Because you are using a world wide pandemic that has already killed millions to fight a proxy battle that has nothing at all to do with the virus and societal health. You are more concerned that you are entitled to do what you want at the expense of others simply because you don't believe in "their politics".

...and you are using a bonsai forum to do it?!?
 

coh

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Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic drug that is used to treat river blindness and intestinal roundworm infection in humans. To my knowledge, that is the ONLY approved usage in humans. For a physician to use it otherwise opens the physician up to legal action for negligence were there a negative outcome.

It IS used as a de-wormer in livestock. That's not media...it's the label!

View attachment 397764

Ivermectin is an anti-parasite medicine. It works by

"Ivermectin stimulates excessive release of neurotransmitters in the peripheral nervous system of parasites. It is thought to work by paralysing the parasite or inactivating the parasite gut. In humans the neurotransmitters acted on by ivermectin are in the brain. A protective barrier, called the blood-brain barrier, blocks ivermectin from reaching the human brain."

I specifically picked this source because it is from 2014...well before Covid...and it was written by a non-US physician. Do remember that when you read the article: https://dermnetnz.org/topics/ivermectin

When people call ivermectin "horse paste" it's an obvious attempt to demean. You don't see people calling warfarin a rat poison when it is used in humans, do you? Yet it was first developed as a rat poison.

Also, if your wife is a physician surely you know that many medications are used "off-label" by physicians all the time, so that's a pretty weak argument...especially during a deadly pandemic.

Finally, in vitro studies have shown ivermectin to have anti-viral properties. Some antibiotics do as well. The question is, can standard/safe doses yield high enough concentrations in our system to have a significant impact? Some argue no, but there are lots of studies that show a positive impact. Many of those studies are small, non RCT, questionable quality. But they are nevertheless positive. There are several hopefully more carefully controlled RCTs underway in the US so maybe we'll have some more solid evidence before long.

I don't argue that people shouldn't get vaccines, though I understand why many are hesitant. My belief is the best course of action is to get a vaccine AND have ivermectin available in case of a breakthrough infection, especially if you're in an at risk group due to age and/or other medical conditions.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I think homeschooling creates socially awkward kids that have a weird way of not fitting in anywhere.
Sure, ideally the entire school system needs a revamp. But I honestly believe school is more than education. It's human development in a society, it's rythm, it's structure, it's exposing kids to other pathogens than covid and ramping up their immune system. If you can provide that, for 8-10 hours a day AND be a parent, while also having you-time for yourself, you're either mad or insanely good at what you do.

Fuck man, masks don't make a whole lot of sense if they're not up to par. You can wear N95 or full hazmat suits, but if there's one single hole that allows air to flow free, you're still 100% unprotected. Ask anyone who ever worked in a cleanroom.
We get crappy ones in the hospital too, not because they work, but because they give people an ease of mind. And that's fine with me, I'm vaxxed and ready for the saxophone. I've been raised in classrooms with 35 kids and no windows, all of us came out unharmed. So did you, so did your parents. These risk assessments suck, they're not effective at all and sometimes even have opposite effects. But.. Statistically.. Just get those shots and be done with it, wear a mask and be done with it.. Let's worry about other things in life again. If this is something you're willing to spend 300 days x 10 hours on, out of conviction or whatever, be my guest. But don't come knocking if CPS thinks you're doing a bad job. They have more power than you, they have more resources than you do.

I honestly believe homeschooling equals locking up your kids in order to protect them. Cage a monkey for a year and then let it back into the pride.. It'll get crapped on, it'll get beaten, it'll be back at the bottom rank. If you truly think we're better than monkeys, you do you. Just promise yourself and your kids that you and you alone will take full responsibility for the outcome. We all know how evil kids can be, especially in large groups versus smaller ones. When.. And society WILL.. When society comes for them, they are either prepared to roll with the waves, or they'll drown.

I've had covid and I lived, on just bread, coffee, cigarettes and some ramen noodles and chicken soup.. Possibly the worst a human can live on, and I came out of it with a bad physical condition but that might just be the cigarettes and the lack of exercise for a decade. I've had the vaccines and lived too. I've been masked for 2 years and lived, partially masked for a year prior because of work. I used public transport for 15 years and two full years in this pandemic and lived. I've done the school system in and out, and it made me a functional member of society even though I'm far from perfect. Do take into consideration what you're thinking about doing, and if you're up for it. If your kids are up for it..

I'm not here to debate. I'm here to say what I think and that'll be it.
 

LittleDingus

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Also, if your wife is a physician surely you know that many medications are used "off-label" by physicians all the time, so that's a pretty weak argument...especially during a deadly pandemic.

It's a much stronger argument when there are negative consequences. It's pretty hard...legally...to argue away negative consequences to non-standard care. If "off label" usage has become "standard care"...then sure it's harder to argue negligence. But physicians are not allowed to experiment on humans without proper documentation.

Many physicians will not offer "off label" treatments if they fear there may be negative outcomes.
 

LittleDingus

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I think homeschooling creates socially awkward kids that have a weird way of not fitting in anywhere.

THIS is a major under-reported consequence of Covid, IMO. I know several teachers who are now complaining their students have gone feral due to lack of structure and learning how to behave in groups. I think we'll be fighting this issue for many years to come :(

it's exposing kids to other pathogens than covid and ramping up their immune system.

Anecdotally, every time our kids have changed social groups, they tended to get sick more often as their immune systems adjusted. This is also a consequence that shouldn't be taken lightly.

Less anecdotally, my wife was been complaining for a while now that RSV is rampant in the adult population again. RSV is typically a childhood...even early childhood...illness. It's not common for adults to be hospitalized for it. I will admit this is a negative consequence of masking...but it is far outweighed by the drastic drop in flu related hospitalizations and deaths.

I won't miss masking when/if it ever goes away. But I will miss sick people being isolated. We constantly send our children to school and go to work ourselves even when we know we are currently germ factories :(
 

LittleDingus

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Fuck man, masks don't make a whole lot of sense if they're not up to par. You can wear N95 or full hazmat suits, but if there's one single hole that allows air to flow free, you're still 100% unprotected. Ask anyone who ever worked in a cleanroom.

I don't think the verdict is in on this one yet. I stopped following that trail of research once my family got vaccinated, but there was a growing body of research that was hinting that initial viral load may play a part in severity of disease. Basically, a smaller initial load takes longer to build up an overactive immune response (source of swelling that causes severe symptoms). Meanwhile, your body begins to recognize the threat and neutralize it.

1) A less than ideal mask is still better than none at all. Especially in spread from a source...which is the primary reason for masking for Covid. Dropping the spread from 6' to 2' is still significant in school room populations, for example.

2) Lessening the viral load someone intakes by blocking at least some of the virus expulsion could play a role in how sick someone might become.

The problem with this disease is NOT that it's particularly deadly. If it were more deadly, it would burn itself out sooner. The problem is that it is novel. Society at large hasn't developed an immunity to it. It's not deadly enough to burn itself out quickly. It is deadly enough to cause significant mortality. It is new enough that we are still learning best approaches to deal with it.

That we have to learn on the run is a big part of the problem. We're going to get it wrong early on...ventilators were not the way to go for a large number of cases :( But, we learn and we adapt. To call that a flip-flop carries a negative political connotation ;)
 

coh

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It's a much stronger argument when there are negative consequences. It's pretty hard...legally...to argue away negative consequences to non-standard care. If "off label" usage has become "standard care"...then sure it's harder to argue negligence. But physicians are not allowed to experiment on humans without proper documentation.

Many physicians will not offer "off label" treatments if they fear there may be negative outcomes.

So sounds like we agree - if a physician is willing to take those risks and the patient wants the drug, it should be prescribed...and filled by the pharmacy. Correct?
 

sorce

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@LittleDingus I am not here to argue, I understand how it may seem like I am, but I assure you I am not, and according to what you are saying, you certainly seem more educated on things than I once imagined.

That said, I...well hell, I don't blame you for your passionate stance, but it would go over a little better on me without name calling and assumptions of my stance.

Sorce
 

HorseloverFat

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I run our household fairly “structured” this means I an often “momentarily disliked” because of my strictness... but respected.

We get many compliments about our children’s behavior/intelligence/outgoingness.... but I HAVE seen children VERY negatively, socially influenced my “homeschooling culture”... just gotta get out ahead of it. Get down there WITH your kids.. communicate honestly and openly... the BEST method.. is the most simple in explanation... but most difficult to execute properly if you are lazy WHATSOEVER.

I’ve personally done, private faith-based schooling, public schooling AND homeschooling..

And there is no perfect equation.. because if LEARNING has taught me ANYTHING.. no two kids are the same... no two (sets of, or not) parents.. “parent” the same.. some don’t at all.

Assessing matters like this “broad swings” makes no sense from a developmental standpoint, in my opinion.
 

Mapleminx

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I would have loved the option to homeschool my son (even though honestly I hated it during lockdown), not because of covid but because he has some special needs that make one on one learning much more beneficial to him. Unfortunately this is not possible because as the sole adult in my household I need to work full time to provide for my family.
He’s in a mainstream school and I am currently trying to push the paperwork that would have a teaching assistant assigned to him. It’s long progress and even after approval goes through there will be waiting lists. He does “ok” in class, he could do better if he wasn’t so easily distracted. He’s not stupid by any means but struggles with staying engaged.

But I cannot deny the social bonus of having him attend a real classroom, he loves the chance to socialize and interact with other children during breaks and in the after school club. This is a valuable factor that he would greatly miss out on if he were homeschooled. He is already not the most social of butterflies which makes being immersed in a busy environment even more important to his development. Yes he has to wear a mask most of the day but that’s been going on for over a year now and has become a normal part of daily life.
 

Rivian

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Unfortunately this is not possible because...
it's illegal here.
 

Mapleminx

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it's illegal here.
Ah well looks like I never had a choice anyhow then outside of the lockdown exemptions. Thought that would have changed that law by now, but nope obviously not.
 
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sorce

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Aaaaaaand ......

Sorce
 
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