Anyone recognize the genus of this Acer Palmatum?

[walee]

A few years ago, I visited the Pacific Bonsai Museum and absolutely fell in love with the Japanese Maple Bonsai and have wanted to start my own bonsai, but now looking to purchase a starter plant, I'm discovering that there are so many genus of the maple!

Can anyone help me identify which genus these two are? I'd love to start one of my own! thank you!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFuhbYBDWVh/?igshid=whkmyomabcyo
https://www.instagram.com/p/CKrSvGkjVdz/?igshid=1mfpqwimusu9f

 

[0soyoung]

The genus is acer.
The species is palmatum
The variety/cultivar/sub-species is difficult to guess in this case.
The best reference I know is Vertrees Japanese Maples. Many public libraries have it. So you may be able to check it out there before opting to buy a copy. There are so many new varieties introduced each year that the book gets revised avery 5 years or so.

IIRC, the Pacific Bonsai Museum has a book available showing the collection. You may want to check the web site and get a copy of that book as this particular tree may not be on display when you visit (and visit again, and again = fun, but doesn't answer your question).

btw, this is fall coloration.

 

[walee]

Thank you @0soyoung, for the little correction there I've been doing alot of research on the Acer Palmatum, and have seen so many "cultivar" I'm particularly looking for small leafed sub-species which is green during summer and turns orange-red during fall. I've been looking into the Kiyohime sub-species, but it doesn't appear that the bark grows as nicely as the trees pictured. If you have any recommendations, I'd be greatly appreciative!

 

[SeanS]

If this is intended to be your first tree (or maple) then I wouldn’t get too hung up on the cultivar. Unless you only plan on having 1 maple in your collection and intend developing the highest level tree that will one day be shown in the Kokufu, any popular bonsai JM cultivar will be great on your bench. Even standard green acer palmatum.

 

[0soyoung]

Thank you @0soyoung, for the little correction there I've been doing alot of research on the Acer Palmatum, and have seen so many "cultivar" I'm particularly looking for small leafed sub-species which is green during summer and turns orange-red during fall. I've been looking into the Kiyohime sub-species, but it doesn't appear that the bark grows as nicely as the trees pictured. If you have any recommendations, I'd be greatly appreciative!

You should consult Vertrees. Some generalities are that varieties with spectacular spring color are usually just so-so in fall and vice versa. Another is cultivars with "Hime" in their name have small leaves which makes them attractive for bonsai, but likely difficult to establish on their own roots.

A.p. 'Arakawa' and 'shishigashira' are two cultivars long used for bonsai that meet your green during summer and turns orange-red during fall criteria. As @SeanS said, the standard green a.p. meets this criteria as well. I highly recommend it too. Generic green a.p. is the most common root stock for the cultivars ( , , nudge, nudge).

 

[Shibui]

I have found that most of the small leaf JM are really slow to grow and develop decent trunks. Standard Japanese maple gives me more opportunity to try techniques and get results faster. Also generally a bit hardier than many of the cultivars.

 

[walee]

thanks guys, with all these crazy names on eBay, its quite difficult to find to the regular plain old "green A.P" which is actually what I'm going after. I don't want any crazy lobe shapes or flaming leaves, etc. Would this be a listing for the "standard" JM?

Green Japanese Maple Tree 2-5 feet tall | eBay

These beautiful Green Japanese Maple Trees are perfect for bonsai, grafting, and great landscape trees. These trees are fast and upright growing and can reach heights of 30 feet.

www.ebay.com

Thanks again guys!

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[amcoffeegirl]

One of the links lists the name the other does not.

 

[Grovic]

One of the links lists the name the other does not.
View attachment 360784View attachment 360785

This is not the same tree OP posted, is it?

 

[MrWunderful]

thanks guys, with all these crazy names on eBay, its quite difficult to find to the regular plain old "green A.P" which is actually what I'm going after. I don't want any crazy lobe shapes or flaming leaves, etc. Would this be a listing for the "standard" JM?

Green Japanese Maple Tree 2-5 feet tall | eBay

These beautiful Green Japanese Maple Trees are perfect for bonsai, grafting, and great landscape trees. These trees are fast and upright growing and can reach heights of 30 feet.

www.ebay.com

Thanks again guys!

Those might be plain JM, but are poor candidates for bonsai, unless you are prepared to chop 90% of it down.

But the price is right for cuttings, air layers or just getting familiar with the species.

 

[walee]

@sorce imagine being dumped into the deep end of the crazy too

@amcoffeegirl I confused the Kawahara for the artist: Kai Kawahara. Didn't know there was a sub-species with the same name! Thanks! I'll look into that one too.

@Grovic that is one of the two pictures I posted. At least now I have a little more of a direction to go.

@MrWunderful I don't mind chopping 90% of the tree down, unless it's ill-advised!

Thanks all for your comments, help, and patients for this young padowan!

 

[Grovic]

@sorce imagine being dumped into the deep end of the crazy too

@amcoffeegirl I confused the Kawahara for the artist: Kai Kawahara. Didn't know there was a sub-species with the same name! Thanks! I'll look into that one too.

@Grovic that is one of the two pictures I posted. At least now I have a little more of a direction to go.

@MrWunderful I don't mind chopping 90% of the tree down, unless it's ill-advised!

Thanks all for your comments, help, and patients for this young padowan!

Oh, that's right, I didn't notice there where two links, my bad.

 

[River's Edge]

If you put your location in your profile, it might be possible for someone to point out a local source for material that will benefit your search.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

@amcoffeegirl I confused the Kawahara for the artist: Kai Kawahara. Didn't know there was a sub-species with the same name! Thanks! I'll look into that one too.

maybe I am the one who is confused - I didn’t see the artist name

 

[penumbra]

thanks guys, with all these crazy names on eBay, its quite difficult to find to the regular plain old "green A.P" which is actually what I'm going after. I don't want any crazy lobe shapes or flaming leaves, etc. Would this be a listing for the "standard" JM?

Green Japanese Maple Tree 2-5 feet tall | eBay

These beautiful Green Japanese Maple Trees are perfect for bonsai, grafting, and great landscape trees. These trees are fast and upright growing and can reach heights of 30 feet.

www.ebay.com

Thanks again guys!

These are a great price.

 

[SeanS]

I’d definitely get one (or more) of these...

thanks guys, with all these crazy names on eBay, its quite difficult to find to the regular plain old "green A.P" which is actually what I'm going after. I don't want any crazy lobe shapes or flaming leaves, etc. Would this be a listing for the "standard" JM?

Green Japanese Maple Tree 2-5 feet tall | eBay

These beautiful Green Japanese Maple Trees are perfect for bonsai, grafting, and great landscape trees. These trees are fast and upright growing and can reach heights of 30 feet.

www.ebay.com

Thanks again guys!

I bought 2 similar green JMs last season from a local nursery for the equivalent of $14. One I chopped to 1.5’ tall and started developing, the other I’ve took 4 layers from and many cuttings this season, and have a few more layers planned for next season before I’ll eventually use the great base I’ll be left with.

 

[penumbra]

I’d definitely get one (or more) of these...

I made an offer on a dozen but have not heard from the seller. I need a few for grafting some rare maples.

 

[walee]

@River's Edge updated. I called around a few local shops, apparently Japanese Maples are a bit hard to get right now.
@SeanS Thanks for the suggestion! I actually ended up buying two of them (incase I accidentally kill one ). I'm hoping this will give me a good taste of growing AP especially since it's apparently impossible to find any Kawahara for sale anywhere right now.

In other news, the Pacific Bonsai Museum actually requested to my request and had this to say about the unidentified cultivar:

"Hello! That is a Japanese maple originally created by George Gray in 1963. We don’t have any other information in a particular cultivar in our database. This tree is featured in our book “A Gallery of Trees” if you are interested in reading the history. It’s a beautiful tree, in all seasons."​

Do you guys think it could be from the deshojo family? The regular green AP shouldn't get this vibrantly red in fall right? Sorry guys, still on the hunt for that mystical cultivar!

 

[0soyoung]

Do you guys think it could be from the deshojo family?

No.

The regular green AP shouldn't get this vibrantly red in fall right?

Yes.

The red color arises from anthocyanins that shade the photocenters from too much light (note how the intense red on this tree is the upper, most sun exposed, foliage). So, if fall reds are your thing, you can keep your potted (bonsai) tree in partial shade for a few weeks in late-summer/early-fall, then move it into full sun. I also noted years ago that using too strong a rooting hormone powder when making air layers will also induce this.